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Another winter storm takes aim on our region!

Happy Thursday NBC Action Weather bloggers,

Chance of a white Christmas is going UP!  A second storm has snow in your backyard on Christmas Day.  This second storm is still very suspect but the latest models do have it snowing and accumulating on Christmas.  We will have our updated chance of a white Christmas on the air tonight at 5, 6, and 10 on NBC Action News.

A significant winter storm is possible on Saturday.  The latest model trends continue to have a stronger southern branch storm system.  I will give a few of you bloggers out there credit for your forecasting ideas yesterday, as it appears you made a good early prediction.  Snow is now likely late Saturday and there are a few questions that we still do not have answered.  How much snow will fall?  Where will the heaviest snow accumulate?  Will there be enough wind to blow the snow around Saturday night?  When will it begin?  Could it begin as rain or a mixture? Will there be a rain/snow/mix line in the viewing area?  These are the first questions that come to mind.  Let's look at the storm on the latest GFS model.

GFS 1.gif

 

O.K. bloggers, let me take you through the possibilities, and what these maps mean.  The above map is valid Saturday morning at 6 AM.  The below map is valid at noon Saturday, just 6 hours later.  The main feature to watch is the upper level storm.   On the map above, do you see the big X near the southwest Oklahoma/Texas border?  This is the "vort max" as we meteorologists like to call them.  This X is the center of highest vorticity, or really the center of an upper level disturbance rotating around the main upper low.  The upper low is really not well defined and this makes the vort max that much more important for our chance of snow. 

Now, track this X in the next 6 hours.  Look where it is forecast to be around noon on Saturday.  It is crossing the Kansas/Oklahoma border, just southwest of Chanute.  Do you see the yellow, orange, dark orange, then red colors?   These are varying levels of vorticity.  When voricity is increasing along the flow, then rising motion is induced.  This is what we call PVA, or positive vorticity advection.  PVA is one form of lift.  Warm advection is another.  We will have PVA comined with a little warm advection above the surface during the afternoon Saturday.  And, along this axis will be some very strong rising motion.  Precipitation will be generated and it could be quite heavy.  But, will it be snow?

GFS 2.gif

The vort max, and upper low crossing into Kansas Saturday afternoon will rapidly phase with the upper low near the US/Canada border.  This will cause this disturbance to weaken and quickly exit the region on Saturday evening, thus shutting off the precipitation. 

Below is the surface map at noon Saturday.  A surface low is moving northeast along the advancing frontal system over Missouri.  The dashed lines are 1000mb to 500 mb thickness lines.  Thickness is a measure of temperature in a layer.  The first blue dashed line is the 540 thickness line.  540 means 5,400 meters.  The distance between 1,000 mb and 500 mb is 5,400 meters along that blue dashed line.  The first red dashed line to the southeast is the 546 thickness line, or 5,460 meters.  This distance is larger indicating that the layer is warmer.  When the thickness is 540 or lower then we consider it cold enough to snow in most situations, especially in the winter months. 

So, as we get to Saturday afternoon the GFS is crashing our thickness from around 546 to below 540 as the precipitation increases.  Then about 1/2 inch liquid is generated and someone will likely see heavy snow.  If these maps are close to being correct, then the precipitation would start as rain, or a mixture of precipitation before changing to all snow.

 

GFS sfc1.gif

 

This is targeting our viewing area.  A lot of things can go wrong.  Just imagine if that X, the vort max, is off by 100 miles.  Then everything gets thrown off.  A 100 mile change is nothing when you look at the big picture, but it is one of the reasons why snow forecasting is so hard.  A very slight change can shift all of the snow north or south by 100 miles.  Other things can go wrong.  What if the system is just slightly weaker, faster,  or stretched a bit differently.  This is another thing we will continue to monitor as this system approaches.

The bottom line........It is only 48 hours away.  The models have been consistent.  And, I believe it is going to snow on Saturday afternoon.  Probably more than 1 or 2 inches.  The most likely scenario is for about 8 hours of precipitation from noon to 8 PM on Saturday.  Heavy precipitation from 2 PM to 6 PM Saturday.  This is a small window, and as we talked about yesterday, it is like threading a needle.  Apparantly Mother Nature has some pretty good fingers working right now because it looks like we will thread that needle.  We will have our forecast on the weathercasts tonight at 5, 6, and 10 PM.

Then, onto Christmas.  The latest GFS model does have a few inches of snow forecast during the day on Christmas.  Just in case you are dreaming of a white Christmas.  So, we have two chances to have snow on the ground on Christmas.  One, this first storm, and two, the Christmas storm.  Keep dreaming. Our dreams may just come through this year.

I am on vacation beginning Friday.  Jeremy Nelson and Brett Anthony will keep you updated on these developments.  We, as a weather team, will stay very consistent and in contact with each other as these storm systems come through.  I may take a break from the blog, as I have been consumed by it in recent weeks.

Have a great day!  Watch our newscasts tonight for Kansas City's most accurate forecast!

Gary

Published Thursday, December 20, 2007 9:46 AM by glezak

Comments

 

f00dl3 said:

The fog out here in Lee's Summit was pretty thick for a while this morning. What constitutes a Dense Fog Advisory?
December 20, 2007 11:17 AM
 

Alden said:

Good blog Gary. Very informative. Now, lets make that chance of a white Chirstmas go up to a 100%!
December 20, 2007 11:19 AM
 

Barbara said:

Oh...I just know it's going to just snow and snow on Saturday because we're going to be driving on Sunday.  That's just my luck.  I guess as long as I70E Sunday morning is okay, it can snow all it wants on Saturday.  Bah Humbug!!!!!  LOL!
December 20, 2007 11:24 AM
 

mamaof3girls said:

Great blog entry Gary. Enjoy your vacation...you know something great will happen because you are leaving town...LOLOLOL :o).  Good luck with this forecast team. Looking forward to the new data and seeing what happens.
Monica
Pleasanton
December 20, 2007 11:26 AM
 

Luke Volta said:

Wow.  Great explanation.  This is the first place I go to find out what's going on w/ the weather.  Keep it up, Gary!
December 20, 2007 11:26 AM
 

CRAZYLEGS said:

I FELT LIKE I WAS IN SCHOOL, GREAT JOB GARY!
December 20, 2007 11:29 AM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Yeah!!! 3-5"+ I think
December 20, 2007 11:31 AM
 

Beth said:

I am liking the PVA.  I also like the low moving just south of us.  I am wondering if I will make it to Middle of Nowhere Saline County, MO on Christmas morning.  There's nothing quite like driving on gravel roads covered in snow.  I'd ask how much they are going to get, compared with KC, but it's way too early to make you do that!  All things considered and the very little amounts of info I vaguely remember from Meteorology class, Looks GREAT for snow!!  :)  

Isn't it amazing all the severe weather today in the South????  I hope the injured are okay today and get well in time for Christmas.

Enjoy your vacation!  To the other Meteorologists, get your sleep now!
December 20, 2007 11:31 AM
 

pvt_murphy said:

best explanation in a long time gary, thanks! i think .5" is a little high, but i am hopeful! wouldnt you know that once you go on vacation that multiple decent snow chances come along??? also, wouldnt it be wild if KC got its best snows of the season yet during the "boring" phase? it hasnt been all that boring yet...

murph ************* Murph, Whenever I have filled in over the past year for Gary the weather is always exciting. So expect a storm this weekend and next week:) Jeremy
December 20, 2007 11:32 AM
 

ctjhawk said:

Great explanation Gary.  Reall appreciate how you break down the most complex pieces of weather into such a simplistic explanation.  

I hope we don't go through any boring phases...this is awfully fun!

Keep up the great work and have a grea vacation Gary!

Thanks,
Todd
December 20, 2007 11:41 AM
 

nastyweather said:

Thank You Professor Lezak, looking forward to the next lesson.  I'm getting a shirt with "Vort Max" on it, because it sounds cool.

Well I'm all about threading the needle on this one.  I would love 4" of snow, to ensure we have a really nice white blanket everywhere for Christmas.
December 20, 2007 11:44 AM
 

mattmaisch said:

This was a good one Gary.  Even if someone knew nothing about weather, they would understand what we are facing this wknd after reading this.  Let's hope it keeps looking good!!

Matt.
December 20, 2007 11:45 AM
 

bgmike said:

Excellent blog, Gary.  Thanks.
December 20, 2007 11:53 AM
 

quint2 said:

Thanks Gary for all the great information.  Keep up the Good  work.   Have a great vacation and a Very Merry Christmas
December 20, 2007 12:02 PM
 

KC_Hams said:

That was a great explanation. Why? Because I actually understood it. I'm learning so much from this blog, and not just from the you TV folks. All weather gurus (and wannabe gurus) who post here make this a great learning environment. BTW, I'm still dreaming of a white Christmas!
December 20, 2007 12:04 PM
 

ShawnP said:

Snow and more snow. Haven't had a White Christmas since 92 (2 inches on Christmas night in Newport, RI).
December 20, 2007 12:11 PM
 

N2mountains said:

Gary that was a great explanation and easy to understand. In that entry you cleared up alot of reason why events of thepast have "poofed" in front of us and the complexity that is involved in getting a dogone snowflake to fall on us! THANK YOU!
Indeed this may be excitement about to happen, and what timing it would be for everyone hoping for a white Christmas. Let's hope these models and trends continue in this favor, it would be wonderful to see.
Merry Christmas!
December 20, 2007 12:13 PM
 

Brent said:

sounds great Gary!

this site is pretty interesting!
http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/sref/sref.php?run=2007122003&id=SREF_SNOWFALL_MAX_

if you look at the forecast precip on saturday...

also I have an important question:

how far south do you think the snow could accumulate?....I am going down to Joplin for Christmas on sunday...and I would like to know if it will be a white Christmas down there...or just rain...thanks

Brent,
December 20, 2007 12:13 PM
 

W0XDL said:

Jeremy,

I have noticed that just in the last 24 hours the barometric pressure has come back up after being much lower since the storms came through last week.  Is it normal for the barometric pressure to do this?

I agree with a lot of you fellow bloggers...the snow forecast does look promising!
************** After lows pass by the pressure typically rises, then as storms approach the pressure drops. If you watch the barometer it should start to drop on Friday. Jeremy
DL
December 20, 2007 12:17 PM
 

nikieis said:

great blog gary! ok now on to the snow LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW! i sure do hope we get some snow for christmas.

i think its kinda nice that the snow and bad weather is hitting on weekends so not many people are on the roads.
December 20, 2007 12:23 PM
 

Brent said:

you know....I said 2 days ago...that I knew we would get a storm.. because every time Gary says he's going on vacation..we get a big storm...LOL
December 20, 2007 12:24 PM
 

RDub said:

"I would love 4" of snow"

Someone in the viewing area will probably get that much. But where? I don't think the higher snowfall accumulations will be all that widespread. A small area will get 4"+ but most will get less. Or that's my prediction. *********** Probably correct. Highly unlikely right now that the entire area would see the higher end of the snow total forecast. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 12:25 PM
 

momof3 said:

Great blog Gary!  Now go enjoy your vacation and leave the weather in the capable hands of Jeremy, Brett and Jeff.  They will take care of us and you certainly deserve a break!  I sure hope everything comes together for both of these snow chances.  I told my husband I only wanted snow for Christmas!  Yeah!  This would all be amazing if it happened!  I have to work the next few nights but I will be looking forward to the new forecasts!  Thanks for all that you guys do.  We appreciate it.  Heres hoping we got a really white Christmas and I hope that everyone enjoys thier family and stays safe and warm and has a VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 20, 2007 12:34 PM
 

lilricky said:

Sounds like the perfect storm. A Sat. afternoon event.
December 20, 2007 12:35 PM
 

nastyweather said:

Actually this is the weekend that it would be a travel nightmare, considering a lot of people are leaving early for Christmas either via the air or on the road.  Sounds like Saturday afternoon could be a real mess in this area.
December 20, 2007 12:35 PM
 

macnkc said:

I find this blog to be informative and interesting with all the information. Can't say I share in the excitement of others when storms are on the way. Snow on Christmas or any other day causes travel disruptions, car accidents, and event cancellations. Spring storms cause death and destruction to property.
Judging by the comments,it seems most on this blog have never experienced flooded basements, property damage, or accidents in ice or snow.
Nature can be fascinating and cruel. Everyone is entitled to their opinion,but it sounds insensitive to cheer this weather on. A brown, sunny Christmas will suit me just fine. I wish the weather team success, but I am kind of  hoping you miss this one or we wind up on the low end of accumulating snow! If that happens, your forecast will still be right.
December 20, 2007 12:36 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Gary,
That explanation was awesome! :)  I am getting more excited now that you are getting excited about the snow! :)  If you are going out of town for your vacation, that will be something for us to get snow on Christmas!  It's OK to take a break from something you are sooo passionate about,  And I know that you are passionate about this blog!  I watch you on TV. :)

Jeremy,
I will be watching to see if you come thru with snow on Christmas. :)  I hope it happens. :)  It's been way too long since we've woken up to snow falling on Christmas Day. :)

Kristi


December 20, 2007 12:37 PM
 

singingunicorn said:

I am heading to southern Minnesota to visit family this Saturday and Sunday.  Is this weekend's storm going to make the trip up and back on I35 hazardous? ************ Not sure where in southern MN you are going. But if you leave early(6-8am) Saturday morning you should make it a little way before hitting too much snow. As of now the heaviest snow may occur in parts of Kansas, Missouri, Iowa, and possibly Nebraska. Southern MN is where I'm from and there is a big difference from Worthington to Winona(about 3-4 hours distance). Location is important to the forecast. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 12:38 PM
 

Brent said:

snow isn't as bad as ice you know...I made the mistake of wishing for that....once...
December 20, 2007 12:39 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Thanks Gary very informative. I think I just learned a lot but I will have to wait for my head to stop spinning first. Have a GREAT HOLIDAY and vacation and again thanks for educating us on this blog it is awsome!!
December 20, 2007 12:42 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Gary is on vacation!! That means a bigger storm will happen, we'll probably end up getting 15"-20" of snow!! lol ************ I wouldn't go that far, but it may help some:) Jeremy
December 20, 2007 12:45 PM
 

weatherinkc1 said:

Excellent blog Gary. It was very informative! Looking forward to at least some snowfall this weekend and next week!
December 20, 2007 12:45 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Jeremy,
Are you from the Winona MN area?

Kristi ************* No...Windom. Just over 4,000 people...it is very small. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 12:50 PM
 

simplykristi said:

I had ancestors who lived in the Winona MN area that's why I was asking. :)  For years, my mom has wanted to do genealogy research in Winona but she has not had the chance yet.

Kristi
December 20, 2007 12:58 PM
 

Luthur said:

"Gary is on vacation!! That means a bigger storm will happen, we'll probably end up getting 15"-20" of snow!!"  Andrew

Yeah, between that and the fact I won't be in FREAKING KANSAS CITY this weekend assures a massive snow storm.  I'm going with 12 - 15 " based on this information alone.   Maps? Models?  Pfff.  
December 20, 2007 1:00 PM
 

JohnT said:

Jeremy/Gary,
If you had to put a guess out there right now, does the Saturday storm or the Monday/Tuesday storm look to give us the potential for more significant snow accumulations? Thanks! *********** Gary's opinion may be different. But mine is the storm this weekend. But snow forecasting is tricky and lots of things have to go right for maximized snow amounts to occur. Keep in mind a slight shift one way or another greatly impacts this weekends storm. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 1:04 PM
 

Brent said:

hey just a question...Jeremy...why are the storms coming on the weekends...for 4 weeks!?
December 20, 2007 1:05 PM
 

Scott said:

The models, the LRC, and other means do not factor in the LVI - [Lezak Vacation Index].  Hmmmm....

Well..I would be my worst enemy if I shifted my forecast, so I am going to stay with it right or wrong.  1-2 inches of snow, and some precip falling ahead of the cold air which will rob all of the snow it could be.

In looking at other models, I see the vort in different locations..and PVA may not be as shown above..or it may.

I am not budging, and will either be right or wrong.  I accept my fate. **************** LVI would be pretty high this weekend and next week:) Jeremy
December 20, 2007 1:14 PM
 

simplykristi said:

It will snow.  How much?  Right now, I am guessing between 1 and 3 inches.  It's not going to be a lot.

Kristi
December 20, 2007 1:23 PM
 

Barbara said:

LVI...too funny, Scott!  

1-2 inches of snow would be fine with me, I'm just worried that we're going to get more.  We've got the "LVI", Jeremy filling in, me and my family in a car on our way to Illinois.  We'd probably end up with 30" if my family and me were making it an overnight trip with a camping stop! LOL!  (no!  I am not camping so you all can get your 30"!!!  So don't ask!)  ;)
December 20, 2007 1:27 PM
 

Brent said:

December 20, 2007 1:27 PM
 

Fred said:

No flip-flopping from Scott!

I think we will see between 2-4 inches...
December 20, 2007 1:29 PM
 

Brent said:

I admire that Scott......a person who keeps their forecast is smart in my book.

Brent
December 20, 2007 1:31 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

you hear that scott? you have an admirer...j/k brent.

********** A first for everything;) Jeremy
December 20, 2007 1:35 PM
 

Brent said:

lol...I hate flip floppers...really...its the most annoying thing...
December 20, 2007 1:37 PM
 

morrell said:

I'm loving this weather.  Do you think we could hit 60 tommorow?  
December 20, 2007 1:41 PM
 

Brent said:

I think so...for sure if you are on the south side of the metro....its 53 here...and they didn't think it would hit 50 today
December 20, 2007 1:44 PM
 

Fred said:

You are going to see a ton of flip-flopping in the next several days...the others (a LOST reference) will probably be changing their tunes in the near future.
December 20, 2007 1:44 PM
 

nastyweather said:

Ok, one thing I didn't consider and maybe others didn't is that with the temperatures being so warm leading up to this "storm" is that the ground and road temperatures should be well above freezing.  So what type of negative impact is this going to have on our snow fall totals and how long will it take to accumulate?

My forecast is 4" in southern JoCo.  Ok, that's what I'm hoping for, but I'm still sticking with it.
December 20, 2007 1:47 PM
 

tiger21 said:

In honor of the grades you were giving out on the recent storm forecasts a few days ago, can I give this blog entry a grade?  If you will allow it, I would give this blog entry an A+ !  Outstanding entry Gary!

--------------

Thanks!  When weather starts happening it is easier to teach how it works.  It is more difficult when you are explaining why something didn't happen.  Hopefully we won't be doing much of this.

Gary

December 20, 2007 1:55 PM
 

Scott said:

Brent, in the link you posted...I didn't even need to look at the site.  Look at the last word in the link.  That is the max of any member that the SREF references.  The max on Sat for temps is also in the mid 40s.

Ahhh Jeremy...I am going to once pin you with the LRC question before Gary gets back, so don't laugh so soon.  You have ignored it three times..perhaps the forth time will be a charm?

;-)
December 20, 2007 1:59 PM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

I'm glad to see others coming around to the solution that I was anticipating a couple of days ago and that I still stand by.  It is admittedly still about 36-48 hours out, but I think the trends are encouraging.  

That said, since I won't be in KC for Christmas day, Murphy's Law would certainly dictate that this storm takes aim on the metro fairly effectively!  As would Gary's absence.  It is well known that I'm not a supporter of his cycling theory, but I am a supporter of another Lezak-related theory:  that an indordinate number of significant weather events seem to take aim on the region when he's on vacation.  A perusal through the last year or so of blog entries would likely bear that out.

No matter what happens with Saturday's precip, the north wind is going to be strong and unforgiving for those travelling - even with just a little bit of snow in the air.

I'm not quite as optimistic about snowfall on the 24/25th, but this weekend system should blanket the region with some nice, welcome snowfall.  

------------------

Notes,

Wow!  You finally hit one and you are really taking the credit!  I'm just kidding.....a little.  When credit is due we will give it to you.   Nothing has happened yet, but it does look impressive.

And, I am on vacation, but not leaving, so I will be a sounding board for Jeremy and Brett as we figure this amazing weather out.  We may be seeing what happened in 1959-1960 soon. But, that season didn't produce much snow until February.  So far, this season hasn't produced a lot either.......yet.

Gary

December 20, 2007 2:00 PM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

Scott - Don't you think Jeremy's silence has already answered your question? ************* Not sure what you are referencing...just repost. I jumped in for about an hour when Gary was out earlier. I'll answer any question including yours notes. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 2:01 PM
 

nastyweather said:

For anyone who's interested in the historical chances of a White Christmas, the NWS provided some great information.  According to the data there's only a 23% chance, but this has no relation to current forecast.  Looking at this historical data is depressing to see it's rare for any snow cover on Christmas and even rarer to actually receive  snow.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/eax/?n=solstice
December 20, 2007 2:02 PM
 

Scott said:

Notes, yes..silence is telling, but thought I would ensure I was not misinterpreting his silence.  But if I don't get an answer this time, I will make my own guesses.

;-)

Oh..and you have mail.
December 20, 2007 2:09 PM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

Scott - I never notice I have mail right away ... that little (1) just doesn't jump out at me, but I did notice it just last hour and responded...

----------------

Scott and Notes,

What is Jeremy being silent about? 

Gary

December 20, 2007 2:12 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

nastyweather,

do you have any pockets of snow/ice on the ground anywhere? we still have atleast 50% coverage in leavenworth.

if you have any snow/ice on the ground at all...then chances are the ground is around 0 degrees C.

that means that the biggest factor would be how wet the snowflakes are once they fall.  with an expected wet snow to start, it may not accumulate all that quickly...but, the temps are going to drop in a hurry on saturday afternoon/evening.  so the snow:liq ratio will likely increase, causing faster accumulation.  
December 20, 2007 2:12 PM
 

RDub said:

It's rare to see any kind of precip on any day in late December, 25th or not. It's a dry time of year. On the other hand, this December is well above average for precip, so maybe this is our year...
December 20, 2007 2:17 PM
 

Scott said:

Notes, I am the same way.  Nevermind my request, as I failed to see my own little one.  LOL
December 20, 2007 2:30 PM
 

Scott said:

Don't forget to put this on your calandar...you can register now.

http://www.norman.noaa.gov/nsww2008/

I am going.  It was great last year...and likely will be again this year.

Word of advise..bring a notebook and a pen...lots to reference later.
December 20, 2007 2:36 PM
 

nikieis said:

at this point right now what are the chances of the northland seeing a big snow on sat?
December 20, 2007 2:39 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

WOOO HOOO!!! thats more like what i want to hear.......thanks for the good news Gary.
December 20, 2007 2:41 PM
 

nastyweather said:

Wow look at the latest 24hr and 6hr QPF models for Saturday.  I don't want to jinx this thing, but that is a HUGE swath getting close to .5" of moisture.  It sure doesn't look like anyone would have anything less than 4" based on this data.

24 hours http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/fill_98qwbg.gif
Go here to find 6hr QPF: http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/qpf/day2.shtml

Also the NAM is looking good, but the heavier moisture is to our East:
http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/nam/18/images/nam_p60_060m.gif
December 20, 2007 2:43 PM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

Gary said:  "Wow!  You finally hit one and you are really taking the credit!  I'm just kidding.....a little."

Wow - viscious.  You can take out that "finally" as this is hardly the first.  But I know you know that and were just trying to make a little passive-agressive jab my way.

And yes, I'll take credit when I get a forecast right...just like I know you do.  

But I'll also take it one step farther:  I'm more than willing to fess up to a blown forecast in the event that I miss.  Time will tell which is the case for Saturday.  

------------------

Oh my!  Come on Notes!  If I mess up I will be the first to tell you.  In the blog, and on the air!  Really!  Anyway, how much snow do you think will fall?  There are still a few unanswered questions.  And, try to remember, I may come in with some tough statements, just like you do, but I respect you and all of the other bloggers.  So, let's keep our mutual respect and this blog can be just outstanding.  We are having an exciting stretch of weather that is lasting longer than I could ever have imagined.  Let's enjoy the ride, have healthy weather conversation, and have a great holiday season.

Gary

December 20, 2007 2:47 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Nastyweather,
Thanks for all the informative links!  I really appreciate that. :)

Kristi
December 20, 2007 2:50 PM
 

nikieis said:

i found this very interesting http://www.crh.noaa.gov/eax/?n=solstice

so there is still hope!
December 20, 2007 2:50 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

hey PVT Murphy..to answer your question about snow on the ground. Here in Independence I see nothing but grass and a whole lot of it. If I look real hard I might see a pile of snow next to the driveway.
December 20, 2007 2:56 PM
 

simplykristi said:

There's still some snow on the ground here in south Raytown.  It's in areas that don't get much sun.

Kristi
December 20, 2007 2:59 PM
 

bgmike said:

Scott and Notes,

Let's not pretend we know what kind time frame these men have to answer our questions.  I believe Scott has no ill intent with his references to Jeremy's "silence" but rather he is just trying to get an explanation on why his repeated question to Jeremy has gone unanswered.  I believe the question was what Jeremy thought about the LRC now that he has been here a while and had a chance to study it.  Basically I believe Scott wants to know if Jeremy is a believer or not.  There is a better than zero chance that Jeremy has just never seen your question.  Maybe.

Speaking of unanswered questions, here is a re-post that I posted yesterday that got overlooked.  And I will open up the discussion to anyone who can answer it.  

"Gary,

I need some help on something.  You use the 500mb height to see the LRC.  I have heard you say that the LRC does not always correlate to the same surface weather as the previous cycle.  So, in using the LRC to forecast you would use it to determine the likelihood of a particular event happening up at 500mb, right?  What factors do you use to determine the surface weather for the same cyclic event during the second, third or forth cycle?  I am having trouble putting into words what I mean so let me give you an example.  You believe that the upcoming Saturday storm could only bring us flurries and a cold front based on the fact that the first time we saw this storm right before Halloween it only produced a small amount of precipitation and a cold front.  So, using that argument, you are saying that the surface weather IS the same during a different cycle.  Do I make sense?  

One more thing.  Can the pattern set up at different heights?  Can the pattern shift in height depending on different variables?  Like having an upper level low during one phase of the cycle and the next time it rolls around it comes in as a surface low.  It is the same pattern but just at a different height.  Lets say that the first time a storm comes by the surface temp is at 60 degrees and it is relatively warm up to 700mb and the second time (since it is later in the winter) the surface temp is 30 degrees and relatively cold up to 850mb, would that not effect the thickness which would then effect how the storm sets up?  I don't know.  These are just some thoughts rolling through my head (as an enthusiast. lol).

Sorry if I don't make sense but I am really trying to look at this and study it to see if I can pick out the subtle nuances of the LRC. "

BTW, Scott, you have a new message on your blog.

Later,
Mike in Ottawa
December 20, 2007 2:59 PM
 

Scott said:

This won't be the time for it I am sure.  I have asked repeatedly over the last 2 months what Jeremy's take is on the LRC, since he has seen it up close.

I am fully expecting a wait and see answer, or more needs to be evaluated, or something like that..but hoping for a more honest answer.

I asked yesterday or the day before, and sometime last week, and again within the last month.  It almost has turned into a bit of a game as there never is an answer..and in some blogs, there are answers to blogs all around mine.

I do try to pick times where I know Jeremy is on.  As we all can see when different folks are logged in by looking in the forum tab.

Anyway, if an answer is available..cool.  If not, I will wait and ask again later.

LOL. ************** Scott, FYI...I'm logged into the blog on my home and work computer 24 hours a day. Does that mean I'm in front of the computer...no. Last week and this week I've been on vacation and have just tried to read the blog entries. I will certainly respond to your question about the LRC over the next week when I'm at work. So please don't assume anything until you hear my answer. I'm not an LRC expert but I do have my opinion after seeing it last year and again in the early stages this year. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 3:00 PM
 

KC_Hams said:

I simply MUST review my postings before I hit "Submit" !!!
December 20, 2007 3:12 PM
 

Scott said:

nastyweather, your links bring an interesting thought.  First, QPF is just a tool.  As you can see, most of the nation has QPF.  Between the two maps, there is a consistent range of .25-.5 for this area.

Seeing the past week, I am compelled to take the lighter side due to the source of the moisture.

Ok...also, in looking at both maps there is an interesting parallel.  Look at the higher QPF just SE of KC on the HPC map.  Even with the NAM.  Knowing that the longwave is to take this vort NE, and knowing where the PVA is progged to be roughly, you can take these swaths as the most likely spot for the most PVA lift resulting in a higher QPF.

Both these show a possible PVA to our SE and E.  Also, in looking at the NAM, look SW to the NE part of the dry sector.  Draw a line to the notch in the next shade..and futher that line NE.  You likely have a progged path of a dryslot.  Where does that line go over?


Just some things I look at beyond the surface of these maps.  I suspect Gary/team and other mets do the same kind of thing..I hope to help show these things as I go through them...


December 20, 2007 3:12 PM
 

Brent said:

the new 7 day looks very good....lol...
December 20, 2007 3:15 PM
 

radman22 said:

He sure changed it alot.   It is looking like he will have to up his white X-Mas chances!
December 20, 2007 3:26 PM
 

beckysma said:

Come on, even if Jeremy did have doubts about the LRC, do you really think he would lay them out here?  Gary is his boss!  That's just kind of a dumb question to expect him to answer.

----------------

Jeremy will tell you how he feels, believe me!  I think Jeremy has seen the LRC work.  It takes a while to experience the LRC.  I do know that he used it last week to give his parents a forecast.  Anyway, ask him while I am on vacation!

Gary

December 20, 2007 3:26 PM
 

Scott said:

Really beckysma?  I really don't believe Gary hired Jeremy on whether he believes in the LRC or not.  Its a fair question.  I don't think Gary would hold it against if he doesn't see it yet or needs more time.

Also, thanks for qualifying my question.  In the future, I will consult with you to make sure I don't ask another question deemed as dumb.
December 20, 2007 3:29 PM
 

ctjhawk said:

Hey guys, go easy now...let's keep the personal feelings out of this.  It's a forum to ask fair questions and i believe Scott's was very fair.

--------------

Thanks!  Exactly!

Gary

December 20, 2007 3:33 PM
 

Scott said:

Jeremy,  I will wait to hear your response.  I really am interested..or I wouldn't keep asking.  I am certain you have an opinion, and am curious to how it looks to those that haven't been around it along time, but recently has had a great deal of exposure.

I know we have a storm coming up...and I know its not the right time, but thank you for the reply..I will await the thoughts.
December 20, 2007 3:35 PM
 

cthorpe said:

First off-Gary-great, informative post on the possible storm Saturday-I love seeing those detailed posts that can break down a model's output into a form that makes sense to an untrained weather enthusiast such as myself.

What I have learned from your posts and from reading other sites, is that the weather is essentially impossible to predict with 100% certainty when anything 'interesting' is in the works (ie snow or severe weather), and anyone who has too much ego wrapped up in always being right is in for a rude awakening!

That said, I don't understand the little jabs taken by some at Notes-he is skeptical at times, but always factual.  As a scientist in a completely unrelated field, I would  agree with him that support for the LRC has been lacking-doesn't mean at all that it doesn't exist, just that it would be nice to see some more rigorous demonstration of it.  For example, just as a simple negative control, you should be able to take last years weather maps on any two days (whether a storm was around or not) 45 days or so apart and find a good match, and if you pick any other time frame (say, 55 days, plus or minus a few), you don't see a match.  I know Notes posted a few comparisons last summer, I think, that didn't line up, and I never really saw a good explanation of that discrepancy.

Anyway, don't mean to be harsh-this is my favorite place to see what's happening with area weather, and it will remain so regardless of whether the LRC is true or not, or whether Gary ever gets time out of his crammed schedule to do some of those comparisons.  Merry Christmas, everyone!

----------------

Great points!  And, we will go through this entire pattern, last years pattern, any year.  I can show you how the maps compare.  It is really complex.  And, I understand all of the skeptical points.  But, we believe it exists. The evidence is there.  And, we believe you can show it day to day through the entire pattern.  But, it is hard to do it for you in the blog!  I show the obvious examples and I think when those comparisons are shown it should be acknowledged.  In time......

Gary

December 20, 2007 3:37 PM
 

nastyweather said:

So Scott you're basically saying we're in a dry slot, like last weekends event?  I hope that's not the case this time, but we'll find out soon enough.

--------------

The only chance of a dry slot is if the upper level system tracks north of us.  This is very unlikely!

Gary

December 20, 2007 3:37 PM
 

Brent said:

oh...no dry slot...I hate those things....its weird how kansas city always seems to get into one...I guess we're just in a bad spot
December 20, 2007 3:41 PM
 

bellgolf08 said:

Does anyone know where i can find a website that would explain all the different models? Much Appriecated.
December 20, 2007 3:44 PM
 

nastyweather said:

Bell go to this site: http://www.theweatherprediction.com/  I learned quite a bit on there.
December 20, 2007 3:52 PM
 

Trentonite said:

Scott,
If you click on the forums link at the top of the page, doesn't it show you who is on?  That may help you in your search for answers...not saying that you need all the help you can get or anything. HA!
December 20, 2007 3:53 PM
 

CRAZYLEGS said:

DON HARMAN GUARANTEED ONLY FLURRIES
December 20, 2007 4:00 PM
 

Scott said:

Trentonite..LOL.  That was the point I was trying to convey.  I have used forums for a long time to see who is on or not.  

Short of Jeremy "I'm logged into the blog on my home and work computer 24 hours a day." [which at the time of this post he is not.], it is very helpful to know when to post certain questions.  

I try to use this feature along with the others of this blog to be utilize its function.

Nasty..that is a great site...and I reference it less now, but a ton early on in my learning!

I am not saying we will be dryslotted, but it is something to be watched.
December 20, 2007 4:01 PM
 

subby64735 said:

who is that??? LOL Jim
December 20, 2007 4:02 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

SCOTT; ....... So waht you are saying is that our famous word from last week may turn up again and we have a chance of this Sat storm to go poof.....lol
December 20, 2007 4:03 PM
 

CRAZYLEGS said:

;>)
December 20, 2007 4:05 PM
 

Scott said:

Gosh...[sic], I am starting to feel like Gary...LOL..

No, I am not saying we will be dryslotted.  I think it is something to watch..

LOL
December 20, 2007 4:06 PM
 

Nick Rau said:

Great info... crossing fingers!  get some rest Gary you need it and deserve it!!!
December 20, 2007 4:12 PM
 

jeffw said:

Best blog since i've been reading them Gary,thanks for explaining it all so clearly..Looking forward to following this new batch of winter weather...GO SNOW
December 20, 2007 4:16 PM
 

nastyweather said:

I'm not going to rail on someone for guaranteeing only flurries, because maybe they'll be correct in the end, but from looking at all the data that doesn't make any logical sense.

Anyway, the latest GFS is still on course for a lot of moisture!  Hope the trends continue.
December 20, 2007 4:17 PM
 

cthorpe said:

Gary,

Yes, it is certainly possible to match up two maps and see a match-I know you compared one of the storms earlier this month to one from October, and it was very similar, and I have to say that last years weather certainly seemed periodic, in terms of storms at regular intervals.  Very intriguing observations, to be sure.

But, in theory, shouldn't even the 'boring' parts of the cycle match up, in terms of the locations of longwave troughs, etc?  In other words, do the 'big picture' elements of the weather on Saturday match up with November 1st, or thereabouts, even if the surface conditions vary?  
December 20, 2007 4:18 PM
 

bgmike said:

Two things you never want to mention on this blog:

1. Dry slot

2. POOF

You will elicit much emotion with both of those.  Use at own risk.
December 20, 2007 4:19 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Gary,

I'm loving the new 7 day!! Are you going out of town for CHRISTmas?
December 20, 2007 4:25 PM
 

Brent said:

Yes, he is going on vacation on Friday... Andrew
and you know that guarantees big storms!..lol


bmike:  halarious!
December 20, 2007 4:32 PM
 

Chris said:

Gary out of town = STORM OF THE CENTURY
December 20, 2007 4:34 PM
 

Brent said:

thats the plan...
December 20, 2007 4:38 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

This is not going to be a major winter storm by any stretch of the imagination. It's been in the 50s to near 60 the last 3 days so ground temps should help prevent accumulation. The moisture is there but the cold air will be overriding attempting to push the bulk of the moisture out with the front, leaving us with probably just an area of light snow, with at worst - 2-4" of snow.

Still, 2" of snow would mean it would be hard for us not to have at least some hints of snow on the ground on Christmas.
December 20, 2007 4:40 PM
 

Brent said:

thanks for bringing us back to reality...lol...we were off in fantasy land....haha...
December 20, 2007 4:42 PM
 

PK in LS said:

bgmike, I think I've got the answer.  

Dry slot by itself causes much emotion.

POOF causes much emotion.

But how about "dry slot POOF"?
December 20, 2007 4:42 PM
 

Scott said:

True bgmike.

Also..your other prior point is addressed.
December 20, 2007 4:42 PM
 

Scott said:

Agreed f00dl3.  We will see.
December 20, 2007 4:43 PM
 

heavysnow said:

50's or 60's the last 3 days?  
December 20, 2007 4:45 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

It sounds like the southeast will get their nice dose of rain! Continue to pray for more down there!
December 20, 2007 4:46 PM
 

nastyweather said:

I'm still saying 4" and sticking with it.
December 20, 2007 4:46 PM
 

GaryB said:

Gary, In a recent blog, you had narrowed the LRC trend to 50 to 60 days.    Fifty days or even 60 days ago, we were in a 21 day drought..  I'm not understanding how this fits into the LRC....
December 20, 2007 4:46 PM
 

GaryB said:

PK.......dry slot poof...preperation H...
December 20, 2007 4:47 PM
 

kellyann said:

CRAZYLEGS!!! What is wrong with you? LOL...This is not the other station blog! Why would you even mention DH, his opinion is for his groupies :)
December 20, 2007 4:48 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

Got to 51 downtown today, got up to 52 yesterday, tommorow it is supposed to get up to 56 but with the strength of the front advertised and wind fields I wouldn't be surprised to see warmer air mix down (60s) in advance of the front.
December 20, 2007 4:49 PM
 

kellyann said:

Hmmm...Where have I heard that saying before " By no stretch of the imagination" ?
December 20, 2007 4:49 PM
 

kellyann said:

I think we will get 1.5-2 inches of blowing snow and it will make it seem like a blizzard! If we would happen to get 4 or 5 inches and have all of that wind, wow! that would not be a good thing.
December 20, 2007 4:51 PM
 

Brent said:

yes used quite often by someone on the other station....

LOL
December 20, 2007 4:53 PM
 

GaryB said:

Uh ho,  the Katie senerio is beginning already......
December 20, 2007 4:55 PM
 

4caster said:

OK, I hate to add fuel to the excitement, but the first HWO mentioning big accumulations has been posted, via Quad Cities:

SATURDAY AFTERNOON AND NIGHT...A WINTER STORM IS EXPECTED TO IMPACT
THE AREA SATURDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT WITH THE POTENTIAL MFOR SIGNIFICANT SNOW AND BLOWING SNOW. RAIN WILL DEVELOP FRIDAY NIGHT...THEN CHANGE TO SNOW FROM WEST TO EAST SATURDAY AFTERNOON. WIDESPREAD 2 UP LOCALLY 8 INCH SNOW ACCUMULATIONS ARE POSSIBLE ACROSS THE OUTLOOK AREA. WINDS WILL INCREASE TO 20 TO OVER 35 MPH FROM THE NORTHWEST CAUSING CONSIDERABLE BLOWING AND DRIFTING SNOW BY EVENING.

Better yet, Des Moines now has Winter Storm Watch up:
...BUT INITIAL ESTIMATES ARE THAT 4 TO 6 INCHES OF
SNOW...WITH LOCALLY HIGHER AMOUNTS ARE POSSIBLE ALONG WITH THE
ADDED HAZARD OF CONSIDERABLE BLOWING AND DRIFTING OF SNOW.

But, for those of you from KC, not so good news...
MINOR SNOW ACCUMULATIONS...TOTALING ONE TO THREE INCHES...WILL BE POSSIBLE ACROSS MUCH OF NORTHWEST MISSOURI INTO ADJACENT KANSAS AND IOWA.

Now, this is great for me, as I am the foreigner here from Western Illinois.  But for those of you on the other side of the state, I will continue hope for your winter wishes to come true as well.  But, still 36-48 out, so let the fun continue...

Later all
BAClair
December 20, 2007 4:56 PM
 

Scott said:

GaryB - If I remember correctly it was 53-57 days.  The LRC cycle aspect does not directly reference the surface at all.  It does reference flow and patterns measured at the 500mb level.  If you want to compare at that level, compare away.  I get it in principle, but not skilled enough to make the comparisons.  Gary will take this part.

So..the drought was as result of surface impacts.  While the surface is impacted often by the upper levels, it has an indirect measurement at the surface.  That is what I am tracking...but purely for the LRC, just because the surface was one way the prior cycle does not mean it will be again.  Nothing in the LRC states or even implies this.

While I will defend the LRC to a point, there are elements of it I don't fully support.  So, that is the value of a good conversation..but we all need to be on the same playing field to have the discussion or it won't make sense or will turn to confusion.

I felt this way for a year or two before I finally took the time to dive deep into it.  
December 20, 2007 4:57 PM
 

Stormdog said:

Stormdog here - Yikes!!!  I have good opinions of Notes, Scott and of course Gary, Jerermy et al...  I suppose when one feels strongly about their beliefs, it can get heated, but lets please not start going there on every storm.  The last one was quite enough in the emotion department for me.  You guys I was banking on setting the tone of civility for the rest of the blog, and frankly, I am getting uneasy once more.  Please, chill...if you are right great, if not, well, you can't win them all.

Peace out, Please!!!
Dog

PS Bring me some more good rain - I'll even tolerate a couple of inches of snow. :)
December 20, 2007 5:03 PM
 

Barbara said:

Hey 4caster...where in Western Illinois are you from?
December 20, 2007 5:03 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

We are due for a 40" plus snow winter, looking at statistics they happen every 48 to 50 years, and we could use one after the last few boreing winters. If just we could replace that spring time severe weather with huge snowstorms :-D
December 20, 2007 5:09 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Does anyone know does Jeremy have a snow vest to wear since he will be in Gary's spot. Sorry Brett I do not get up that early to ask if u have a snow vest. ************* Not to be scrooge...but I would wear the anti snow vest. I love days like today in winter:) Jeremy
December 20, 2007 5:10 PM
 

GaryB said:

Okay Scott, but a cycle is a cycle.  Any way you want to look at a 53 to 57 days cycle, we were in a dry period...no fronts....  If it is a true 53-57 day cycle, then we should be in the middle of a 21 day dry spell.  

I too believe in the LRC to a point..    I also believe outside the LRC there are monthy and weekly and yearly cycles....  Trends.....Cycles,....etc... The LRC is there and is open for thought.  

In any world in long range forecasting past 15 to 20 days, it's at best all a coincedence.......

---------------

Gary,

This part of the pattern fits well!  It really is fascinating, and a part of the LRC that is very difficult to explain.  But all of these systems are related to the ones that tracked north of us during the long dry spell.  Cold fronts were plentiful.  The pattern should turn warm within two weeks!

Gary

December 20, 2007 5:12 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

wow Gary way to go out there saying it may snow all day Christmas. That would be all that I need for Christmas!!!
December 20, 2007 5:21 PM
 

CRAZYLEGS said:

THANKS FOR THE REALITY CHECK KELLYANN.
December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
 

Brent said:

and we are leaving the day before Christmas and coming back the day after....missing it all!
December 20, 2007 5:24 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Hey I think it was great to see the winner of the snowflake contest. Way to go Evelyn. Gary u might want to watch out for her taking your job and then calling it the ERC...LOL

-------------

Whe was just awesome! 

Gary

December 20, 2007 5:25 PM
 

nastyweather said:

For what it's worth, probably not much, but the NWS in Topeka has raised their chance of freezing rain from 30% to 50% and their picture for Satuday looks like a blizzard.  I will say if there is a north wind between 20-25mph that will SUCK!
December 20, 2007 5:28 PM
 

CRAZYLEGS said:

NASTY, THANKS FOR THE LINK EARLIER TODAY, THE SITE IS VERY INFORMATIVE.
December 20, 2007 5:34 PM
 

kellyann said:

Brent, it is Andrew's blog on his site, not on here.
December 20, 2007 6:14 PM
 

radman22 said:

55% !!!!     Sounds like good odds, but I wont get too excited yet.
December 20, 2007 6:19 PM
 

simplykristi said:

There's a 50% chance of a white Christmas, according to Gary. :)

Gary is predicting 1 to 4 inches of snow on Saturday. :)

Kristi
December 20, 2007 6:20 PM
 

simplykristi said:

OOOPS  That should be 55% not 50%.

Kristi
December 20, 2007 6:20 PM
 

Brent said:

its getting exciting!
1 to 4!!!
December 20, 2007 6:28 PM
 

Matt P said:

Gary's going on vacation?  The GAF (Gary's Away Factor) will come through again.  Unfortunately, I won't be around.

Gary and crew, we are driving to Chicago on Saturday, leaving around 10.  What is the anticipated weather (we're going up through Des Moines)?

Thanks and happy holidays!
December 20, 2007 6:40 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

mattp,

i would suggest driving through st. louis to get to chicago this time...it will likely to buy you some time before the snow starts...

...just a thought, take this for what its worth matt, but i found a really quick way to get to chitown.  take 29 or 35 north.  hook a right(east) onto hwy 36 in saint joe and that will take you through hannibal, mo to springfield, il and straight into chicago.  its considerably shorter than than either the des moines or st. louis routes.  less traffic too! dont tell too many people or else it will get too much traffic.  i got to chicago in less that 7 hours going that way! i drive fast, though...
December 20, 2007 6:49 PM
 

Brent said:

the comments count is well over 100...time for a new blog Gary....lol
December 20, 2007 6:56 PM
 

MTongate said:

OK I did it again, channel surfing itis during the news weather casts. Actually it was during the 5:30pm   local news channel. He has rain and maybe a dusting for Sat. and nothing for CHRISTMAS High 57. Don't ya ll look at the same models.... again sorry I should have known better, but I can't help it. MT ************** The weather hasn't occurred yet for Saturday or Christmas Day. But I think we are pretty confident in what we have down on the 7 day. Jeremy
December 20, 2007 7:00 PM
 

5kckmartins said:

unfortunately MT... I have to confess too.. but there's no other local news at 530, and i jus happened to be walking through.. heard that and said the exact same thing..

Of course, I was just waiting till my fav weather man... GARY, cuz I knew we'd get great news.

Stacy
December 20, 2007 7:09 PM
 

5kckmartins said:

whoa.. missed a few words there..

Of course, I was just waiting till my fav weather man... GARY, cuz I knew we'd get great news.   TRANSLATED from typonese

Of course, I was just waiting for my fav weather man... GARY, cuz I knew we'd get great news.
December 20, 2007 7:11 PM
 

Brent said:

yeah Gary you are forecasting the good stuff this time...the other channels are downplaying it...lol
December 20, 2007 7:19 PM
 

kufan said:

Gary: Great blog. It seems you have been right on lately, and I bet you will be again with this. It seems to me you were on top of this before anyone else. Also, it's amazing how different your forecast is from some others for Christamas week, but I bet you are coorect and they will have to come around at some point,.

--------------------

At some point it would be nice if that comparison to that one channel would make everyone realize something.  But, I guess we will take the test EVERY single time.  Amazing.  There is absolutely no sign of the warmer Christmas forecast on that other station.  I wish I didn't even know about it, but you guys keep telling us.

Gary

December 20, 2007 7:36 PM
 

kellyann said:

Is there going to be new blog ever? Man, it's been a while!!! Anyone have any new weather news?

---------------

Kellyann,

Soon!

Gary

December 20, 2007 7:39 PM
 

dogncatmom said:

As a novice to the world of models, but an avid weather watcher for years, thank you for the explanation of this weekend's possible storm and explaining what to look for on said models, Gary.  It's much appreciated!  I love being able to learn new things about the weather.  

--------------

Thanks, and we will try to add some more forecasting tools for you to learn in the coming weeks.

Gary

December 20, 2007 7:46 PM
 

lil_forney said:

I don't know but is anyone else tired of this fog that we've had ALL DAY?  Someone get rid of it ASAP!
December 20, 2007 7:59 PM
 

kellyann said:

Hey lil, I live close to Grandview, Mo...We just had heavy fog from 9 - 9:40 this morning and then it was sunny rest of the day.
December 20, 2007 8:00 PM
 

Brent said:

lol we are all getting impatient for a new blog...lol including me!
December 20, 2007 8:10 PM
 

Greg said:

Today was absolutely georgous, and wow, 55 tomorrow almost feels like early spring! Gary, when's our next chance at a run on the 60's. Fleeing for cover from the masses at this moment............
December 20, 2007 8:10 PM
 

Barbara said:

Greg...I'm with you!  It could stay like this all winter and I'd be one happy camper!  :)
December 20, 2007 8:13 PM
 

kellyann said:

HELP!!!!!! WE NEED A NEW BLOG WITH NEW INFORMATION TO BLOG ON!!!
December 20, 2007 8:15 PM
 

LRCfan said:

I wonder if Gary will up the white christmas chance from 55% to 60% :)
December 20, 2007 8:19 PM
 

Barbara said:

Everyone wanting a new blog...calm down.  They're probably trying to put together the 10pm show.  I don't think they have a lot of time for the blog right now.  They'll give us one when they can!  Patience!  :)
December 20, 2007 8:19 PM
 

kellyann said:

Barbara, lol, yes mother!!!...We want it now!!!
December 20, 2007 8:25 PM
 

Brent said:

we feed of the new blogs...and we haven't had one forever...so our energy and enthusiasm is running low...lol
December 20, 2007 8:27 PM
 

Barbara said:

Sorry, Kellyann...it must be the mom in me!  :)
December 20, 2007 8:28 PM
 

kellyann said:

Yes Barbara it must be! You sound just like my mom!!  I called her a little while ago and ask her if she had my cookies and candy done yet, lol! She told me to find my patience or go pout in a corner, LOL
December 20, 2007 8:32 PM
 

Barbara said:

"She told me to find my patience or go pout in a corner,"  That's a great one!  I'll have to remember that.
December 20, 2007 8:35 PM
 

MTongate said:

Gary sorry for telling on the other guys to you, we just don't understand how he comes up with some of the things he says. I guess thats why you left.
December 20, 2007 8:38 PM
 

kellyann said:

Barbara!!!  That's so not fair!!!  Do you have kids?
December 20, 2007 8:39 PM
 

kellyann said:

MT, who wouldn't leave!!! Geez, when something changes from night to morning, wouldn't you go nuts too?
December 20, 2007 8:41 PM
 

LRCfan said:

It's the holiday season everyone wants snow everyone is anxious but you got to remember Gary is busy right now at this time studying new data I'm sure he will update us tonite at 10pm and he probably will update this blog this evening,but until then let's give Gary some breathing room.
December 20, 2007 8:43 PM
 

nastyweather said:

The NAM is looking good yet again.
December 20, 2007 8:44 PM
 

Barbara said:

Yeah...I have three...8, 6 and 4 years old.  And I promise not to use that line on you! ;)
December 20, 2007 8:46 PM
 

kellyann said:

LRCfan, you must be the dad!!
December 20, 2007 8:46 PM
 

kellyann said:

Barbara, you better not use it on me!! I get that stuff from mom every night!!!  I tell her I can't get far enough away from her, she always finds me!! I will be home soon and then the spats begin with us, lol
December 20, 2007 8:49 PM
 

nastyweather said:

This updated blog should be a good one, since he's leaving us for a week.
December 20, 2007 8:51 PM
 

Barbara said:

Kellyann...you listen to your mom!  :)  The older I get, the more I realize how right she was.  
December 20, 2007 8:52 PM
 

kellyann said:

Barbara I know, but she just don't understand how times have changed!! She Used to think everything was like "Leave It To Beaver", and I finally got her to change, but darn it, now she thinks everything is like the flippin "Brady Bunch", LOL.
December 20, 2007 8:55 PM
 

bellgolf08 said:

Thought i would pass along that in Sedalia the Fog is very very dense. I would say visibility is less than .10 of a mile.
December 20, 2007 9:00 PM
 

LRCfan said:

nah I'm not that old kellyann lol
December 20, 2007 9:03 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

I don't know about this -- NAM is developing a dry slot to our south and, yes, the NAM and GFS both are over-done on QPF this winter, and yes, both models have always had a souther bias on these storms.

In other words, my current thinking is that we will get dry slotted with not much hope of a significant TROWAL this time (as the front will quickly push the moist air out), and there goes the "White Christmas" thing.

Urgh....

Guys - is this going to be a problem this winter?

During the "wet" part of the cycle a few weeks back we managed to miss a Ice Storm because temperatures were too warm, and only get 1.7" of snow at KCI (closer to 2" at my house).

In the "dry" part of the pattern we are getting pretty nice looking storms but those storms pull in too much dry air and end up doing the "Tonganoxie split" right around us.

So far from the first "wet" cycle and part of the "dry" cycle we are up to 3" of snow. Historically, over the past few years the first week of February is about the last of the cold air and after that we are talking 60s, 70s, and Tornado outbreaks.

If we don't get "hit" in January, I think we're done.
December 20, 2007 9:04 PM
 

LRCfan said:

fog is getting dense in some areas dense fog advisory in certain areas nws thinks the fog could arrive as far west as kc metro area mainly the east side I know Gary said it could be foggy in the morning be careful out there and take your time when driving.
December 20, 2007 9:07 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Kellyann..........Trust me on this your mom will get a lot smarter every year that you get older. When u are 30 u will say Mom when did u get so smart!!
December 20, 2007 9:08 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Gary,

I already have it up to 100% for Saturday on my 5 Day! http://kcweatherblog.blogspot.com/
click in links section, 5 day forecast.
December 20, 2007 9:11 PM
 

nastyweather said:

So if this "dry slot" does happen, would we get any snow?  We managed a couple inches last week with that dry slot.
December 20, 2007 9:12 PM
 

kellyann said:

sportsfreaked,, it does not matter how old I am, or will be, you are right, my mom will always know more than me and be smarter than me when it comes to living, society, and life in general. I say this only because she has been there, done that, seen it, and lived it. I guess I just have to live and learn and suck it up!
December 20, 2007 9:12 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Are we under a winter storm watch for this Saturday?
December 20, 2007 9:16 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Kellyann...... You are correct. I guess what I am saying is cut your own path in life and when in doubt listen to your mom weigh the advise and then you can make an informed choice with advise from someone who has your best interest at heart......Gary see what happens when we don't have a new blog we are turning into dear abby's.............lol
December 20, 2007 9:19 PM
 

heavysnow said:


f00dl3, do you have to be negative about every storm?  
December 20, 2007 9:20 PM
 

LRCfan said:

sportsfreaked...not officially I'm pretty certain we will be under a snow and blowing snow advisory with the accumulation of snow and the wind expected..
December 20, 2007 9:20 PM
 

Brent said:

"I already have it up to 100% for Saturday on my 5 Day!"

that doesn't mean it will happen...or that Gary should put his up to 100%....he knows what hes doing...and thats why hes the most accurate....lol no offense.

Brent
December 20, 2007 9:21 PM
 

kellyann said:

sportsfreakes, ROFL!!!!  Dear Abby, I have a serious problem with my parents; they think I am ............LOL .......Gary, save us!!!!
December 20, 2007 9:24 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Andrew.......... is that a current video and is that u doing the weather? Pretty interesting if it is and how u put that together. Not to shabby
December 20, 2007 9:24 PM
 

kellyann said:

I want to see the video of Andrew, where is it?
December 20, 2007 9:25 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

yes Kellyann your parents think what..it is ok to share let it all out girl let it go I tell ya........ROFL  don't forget we love you man...
December 20, 2007 9:26 PM
 

Brent said:

lol its on his site.....
December 20, 2007 9:31 PM
 

LRCfan said:

nice video andrew,but you need to update it...
December 20, 2007 9:31 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

It's really kind of hard to be positive when you have seen year after year of potential huge snow makers fizzle out in the last 24 hours on the computer models, like it's some evil sort of tease by mother nature. And continue to be teased by it, storm after storm after storm.

I guess it's modelitus :-S
December 20, 2007 9:36 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

GARY JEREMY SOMEONE we are having blog withdrawl we need to know we need info on Saturday or we can not be held responsible for our actions.......some call that show intervention on A&E and see if they have blog interventions
December 20, 2007 9:39 PM
 

nastyweather said:

If you find a 12 step program that gets you away from this blog let me know.  I would say we could go to group meetings, but I think we're already there.
December 20, 2007 9:43 PM
 

Brent said:

ROFLOL!!!!!!!!! thats the funniest thing I've heard in a week!
thats hilarious!!!!!

I was about to come on and say if there wasn't a blog in 15 minutes that I might go crazy!...ROFL!!
December 20, 2007 9:44 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

foodl3,

two things...first of all, no one is saying that this will be a potential huge snow maker, so dont let yourself get teased.

second, as gary mentioned earlier, you can only get dryslotted if the low moves over you or north...and this low is traveling WAY south...dont worry!
December 20, 2007 9:46 PM
 

kellyann said:

ROFLOL!!!!!   Im dying here, LOL...I think I just stuck a guy in his vein one to many times because I was still laughing about this!!
December 20, 2007 9:47 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

If i have to watch that video of Andrew again I may have flashbacks of having to go up on the roof and turn the attena to get a better picture for my dad.......LOL
December 20, 2007 9:47 PM
 

kellyann said:

Thank God you are a pvt , if you were a SGT Major, it would be different!!!
December 20, 2007 9:48 PM
 

kellyann said:

sportsfreaked, where is that video? I need a laugh
December 20, 2007 9:49 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

KEllyann click on andrews name there and it should take you to his website and click on his 5 dayforecast it is on the left side under kc weather blog links
December 20, 2007 9:53 PM
 

Brent said:

yeah the reception isn't that great...

sportsfreaked...your comment was hilarious!!! idk what kellyann is talking about...but that was too funny!
December 20, 2007 9:53 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

kellyann,

???

...if i were a SGM i would have pvt's do this for me anyway.  if it makes any difference i havent been a private for a long time...pvt murphy is the title of a popular military political satire drawing.

murph
December 20, 2007 9:57 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

I will see you all later am on my way to Andrews to turn the attenna........ROFL becarefull if u have to go out tonight with the fog and all watching the weather and then nighty night
December 20, 2007 10:02 PM
 

kellyann said:

pvt , I love you! You are so so much like my best friends dad. He is a hard ... but he get's his point across! He is retired from the army now, but I always call him SGT MJR....His name is Roy Beers.
December 20, 2007 10:33 PM
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