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Thursday afternoon, February 7, 2008....Blogger Entry

Good afternoon bloggers,

A lot of you have some great ideas, comments, and you add a lot to the NBC Action Weather Blog.  We are going to start something today that will be exciting and a great way for you to participate in a different way.   NBC Action Weather bloggers that are interested should email me and we will give you a chance to be part of this idea.  You will have the opportunity to write your own blog entry, not just a comment, and add your thoughts and ideas that we post as one of our entries.  We may do this once a month, or at times when the weather calms down.  Since the chance of snow is gone for today, I decided why not start today, especially since one of our favorite bloggers wrote me this excellent entry.  So, here we go as we start today.  And, no Bill we don't think you crossed the line at all!

Blog entry from Bill Gollier in Lawrence, KS        February 7, 2008

 

I’m going to throw out a few things that probably cross the line somewhat but after reading the Blog yesterday I decided what the hey-so here it goes:

 

 

  1. The Topeka/Kansas City corridor weather history over the past 100 years is strewn with snow falls gone awry. I really wasn’t kidding when I said I was going to write a book called “Missed it By That Much: The Trials and Tribulations of a Snow Lover in Kansas City”. I grew up in Kansas City and then lived in Brookside for 7 years before moving to Lawrence-the missed snows are in the 100s. I remember several times as a kid and teenager thinking I was going to get out of school based on current trends only to awaken to partly cloudy skies and flurries-that includes the snow utopian 70’s and early 80’s. I’ll just throw out a couple: January 1979: Looked like 8-10”-got cloudy skies and wind; December 1982: Looked like 12 inches -got rain and ½ an inch; February 1983: Looked like 10 inches-got 1 inch that melted the next morning; March 1989: Looked like 12 inches-got flurries and partly cloudy skies; January 1999: Looked like a possible Blizzard -got 3 inches of sleet. These are just off the top of my head from when I was growing up in Kansas City. My point with this is that the past 2 possible snow dumps that went awry are nothing new for this area. There have always been and always will be several storms a year that split the viewing area or miss it all together.

 

 

  1. Yes, I fully realize and have been incredibly thankful as a snow lover that Lawrence has benefited from this year’s LRC. However, before anyone begins to think of Lawrence as some snow utopia I will just say that Lawrence averages less snow than Kansas City and 9 times out of 10 is the one missing the bigger amounts. The most recent example is November 2006 when Baldwin received 9 inches and Lawrence got 20 flakes-that is like KCI getting 9 inches and Briar Cliff getting 20 flakes. Or in 1994 when most of the east side of KC got 5-8 inches and Lawrence did not see a flake.

 

 

  1. The other thing to consider is the predominant storm tracks/LRC the past 2 years. Last year “the Storm” was almost always a “Texas Hooker” which is a horrible track for areas North and West of the metro. This year the track has been to Joplin and then hook North East which is not very conducive for areas South and East as the cold air has trouble becoming established in those areas with that particular track. What we have lacked and really have since 1992-1993 is the classic 4 corners low that tracks right across the Kansas Oklahoma Border over Joplin or Nevada with cold air already in place and does not make the turn until it gets to Springfield or Rolla, Missouri. That is the track that blankets the whole area with decent swaths of snow.  If that track had been in place in either of the past two winters, 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 would have gone down in history as winters comparable to 1992-1993 and even the late 70’s. Unfortunately, we have had storm tracks that are conducive to splitting the viewing area.

 

 

  1. In reality, the snow lovers who should be the most disappointed are those who live between KCI and the Broadway Bridge-when is the last time KCI had a snowfall greater than 4 inches-December 2005?? At least some areas in South KC and points even further south had some good snows last year.

 

 

  1. The LRC: The argument circulating around weather message boards etc. that this month is warm and mild due to La Nina or Pacific Flow is just all wet. The LRC told us that these past two storms would be here and this one would be very wet-well, they both were here and this one was extremely wet. Again, if either of these storms had tracked 50 miles different this area would of received close to 20 or maybe even 25 inches of snow in 5 days-that is unbelievable. The key though is that the LRC told us the storms would be there and even gave clues as to how they would pan out. If the Pacific flow and La Nina are so prevalent right now, why did we even have a chance of having 20 inches or more in 5 days-if the Pacific is in control right now, we should be warm, mild and mostly zonal. The LRC said the storms would be there and they were.

 

 

  1. Given number 5: The LRC, for all its amazement, is not a perfect synoptic guide-for sure many of the parameters will be there along with each event, but exact tracks etc. have to be fine tuned as the event approaches. Thus, on last Tuesday the team knew the storm was coming and knew it would be a wet one-they also know where the long wave trough and have an idea where it should go. However, this is the time when synoptic meteorology comes into play-based on what they saw Tuesday afternoon and knowing how wet this storm was going to be, they went for it-one has to respect that!!! Of course, given the points above, this is Kansas City and it split the Metro-but, the storm was there and it produced. A true missed forecast to me is if the storm never materializes or misses the entire viewing area-this one did not-it was missed by 40 miles. I mean come on anybody from OP driving to a KU basketball game which is done 2-3 nights a week would have driven right into a decent winter storm at about Eudora.

 

I know this is extremely long, but these are just some random thoughts. My main thrust here is that the LRC has shown the way again this year. The storms were there just as the LRC said they would be. The whole viewing area could just as easily have received 20-25 inches of snow the past 5 days instead of what happened but things just did not track exactly right-this had nothing to do with Pacific Flow, La Nina, the AO, the EPO, or the PNA-it was all about the LRC and the fact that both storms tracked about 40-100 miles in the wrong direction.

 

Bill Gollier

 

The above entry is entirely from Bill Gollier.  If you have any comments or ideas let us know.   Bill can read them and get back to the blog later today after he gets home from work.  I have never met Bill, but he has been a great contributer to our blog for years now.  Thanks Bill for your thoughts today.  If anyone else is interested in doing a blog entry, just email me at Lezak@NBCActionNews.com.

Have a great day everyone!

Gary

Published Thursday, February 07, 2008 11:58 AM by glezak

Comments

 

MrSteve said:

Gary you and the team have done an excellent  job.

NO ONE on earth can micro manage a weather systems ultimate evolution and make perfect predictions throughout the real time course of a storm but Team 41 has been very reliable and amazingly close since this season kicked off when the Dec 1 scenario began unfolding.

Now, when is spring going to be here? Lets talk spring!

LOL

February 7, 2008 12:22 PM
 

W0XDL said:

I'm all for another try at snow and lots of it!  We can't be done yet:)

DL
February 7, 2008 12:30 PM
 

reafamily said:

Great job, Bill! You have managed to cover the whole issue completely and fairly. Lifelong residents of this area understand the old Tonganoxie split and the difference just a few feet can make in a storm. The only time people get in an uproar is when it involves snow. It can rain on one side of the street, but not the other and everyone just laughs about how funny Missouri/Kansas weather is. This pattern holds all year long. The LRC has done a remarkable job forecasting the approximate day for these systems - when have we ever known 2 months out that there was a chance of a system on a certain span of days? - we can't expect the LRC to always know the exact track a system will take due to all of the surface variables.
Weather Team - I appreciate all of your hard work and dedication. Plus your good nature that has really shown through over the past week. Thanks!
February 7, 2008 12:31 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

I just found out that my mom is going to have the baby today!! A few months ago, we found it is was going to be a girl!! That will make it 2 girls, and 4 boys counting us kids only!!
February 7, 2008 12:48 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Great Job Bill!!  
Bill,

What's your thoughts about Severe Weather Season?
February 7, 2008 12:51 PM
 

Scott said:

Nice work as usual Bill.  
February 7, 2008 12:58 PM
 

aviator said:

Great comments, Bill.  And great job Gary and team.  What a wild and fascinating winter so far!

Bill - I was just wondering... Are you associated with the university and tied to the academic world of meteorology in any way?  I was going to ask if you know a couple of guys who taught me the basics of meteorology while I was getting my degree in the early 80's.  One was Glen Marotz and the other was Joe Eagleman.  Dr. Eagleman had an interesting model for tornado development based on a double- vortex within the southern edge of a supercell.  Do you know them and are they still teaching?

Dan
February 7, 2008 1:02 PM
 

Hushpook said:

Gary, it would be interesting to see how an active winter relates to an active Spring. What is the historical perspective on this sort of thing?

------------------

It really depends on the weather pattern.  In 1992-1993 we had a very wild winter ride, and then it was wet in the spring followed by the Flood of '93.  So we will see what this patten brings.

Gary

February 7, 2008 1:06 PM
 

Bob in OP said:

Bill,

Great entry, educational and obviously, interesting reading. As I mentioned when I joined the blog the other day, I moved to this area in the summer of 2005 after living 31 years in either Madison or Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Outside of the December 2005 snowstorm, I have not observed a snow storm here that even closely reminds me of the classic snow storms we had in Wisconsin where all of the critical elements come together as they did in the Milwaukee area yesterday [13-20"].

Obviously, there are many reasons why the Kansas City area only rarely experiences those big, classic snow storms and while I am not a meteorologist, it does not take you long in living here to see that we are just a bit too south for the desired track that most of these low pressures systems take on their journey northeast. And, the right supply of critical polar and arctic air can be spotty in this area. Many of these winter season cold air incursions sweep across the Great Lakes toward New England.

It seems to me that in winter, our weather is highly dynamic because generally speaking, we are in the seasonally normal for Kansas City "battle zone" between warm air to the south and cold air to the north. On some winter days here, it feels like Texas with highs in the 60's while on other winter days, it feels much like it did in Wisconsin with highs in the Teens and 20's. As such, big snow storms are rare. It is either too warm, it then rains and the storm tracks is too far north for us to be in the heavy snow band or warm air overrides colder air and we then get ice or sleet.

Bob
February 7, 2008 1:25 PM
 

JustcallmeMOM said:

As always, I enjoy reading what Bill writes . . .
February 7, 2008 1:35 PM
 

mamaof3girls said:

WOW Bill...that was a great entry!! You have a awesome memory to remember all those dates...maybe you are smart and write them down somewere but either way it was a wonderful read. I can not wait to read some other people's entries. So many people contribute to this blog...some of us just put little comments here and their and some ask questions but their are many that actually know what they are talking about and understand all the wording,charts and terms...what a great contribution they will be. Plus it might help take some of the heat off the weather team from time to time. :o). I know it is not your intention but maybe it will give you a breather. Keep up the great work all.

Congrats to Andrew and his family. What fun to be a big brother at your age, you will be alot of help to your parents.

Monica
Pleasanton KS
February 7, 2008 1:38 PM
 

Brent said:

Great blog bill,

Gary the snow is 100% gone here...and its 40 degrees.
February 7, 2008 1:50 PM
 

weathermom said:

Hi Gary,
I'm hoping that you have another blogger meeting this spring, just so I can meet BILL!!!  His blogs are terrific and are such a crack up at the same time....and I mean that as a compliment, Bill!!  Kathleen
February 7, 2008 2:07 PM
 

jesstone said:

Gary,
    I have just one question, and don't be afraid to give me the truth, is there any REAL chance for snow in Southern O.P. the rest of Feb or March?  I sure HOPE you say yes:)

--------------------

A lot of bloggers were on here last week after we missed that snowstorm saying that was our last snow.  And, then look what happend just a few days later.  Remember, Kansas City averages around 20 inches of snow per season.  By now we average around 12 inches, so this means we have only completed 60% of our snow season.  There is 40% to go.  There will be more chances.

Gary

February 7, 2008 2:14 PM
 

bulldog said:

I think Bill's entry is very informative, I speak for many I think when I say we all enjoy his entry's as well as other bloggers.  Great idea.  Also for when the team gets busy, is there a way that someone like Bill can respond to comments?  Loving the sun peaks today!  Audrey
February 7, 2008 2:25 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Thanks, Monica! I will be helping alot. In a couple of years, I will be moving out probably, so I have to enjoy every moment.(I'm 17,by the way).
February 7, 2008 2:44 PM
 

marlina10 said:

Gary - Using the LRC, does it look like we could get hit with a big storm around Feb. 21?
February 7, 2008 2:47 PM
 

PatsSoxCelts said:

Great coments Bill, you always are very insightful. Gary, not much melting going on here up north even though it is 34 degrees. The suns hasnt been out for awhile. Im looking forward to the next storm.

Tyler
February 7, 2008 3:05 PM
 

bellgolf08 said:

this comment is to andrew. You say you are 17. are you looking at meteorology for a career? if so what schools?
February 7, 2008 3:09 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

Gary great idea!! Well it is good to be back in K.C. and reading some of the blog to get up to date looks like there was a small problem with the last snowfall. Well **** happens sometimes and u have to move on. Bill great blog entry was a very interesting read.
As some of u may know the space shuttle launched today I was suppose to be there but like I said **** happens and had to cancel plans. I wanted to let everyone know that next Thursday and Friday you will be able to see the shuttle docked to the space station in the sky's above us here in K.C. The time for next Thursday would be at 6:27 p.m. and it will be visible for 4 minutes. On Friday the time will be 6:47 p.m. Later on next week I will give details on where to look in the sky. You can also go to http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/realdata/sightings/index.html and it will tell you. Thought some of u might be interested in it.
Gary make sure we have clear skies as they are going by after the 6:00 p.m. news cast...LOL
February 7, 2008 3:14 PM
 

JPnKC said:

Gary- Great idea you have!

I always enjoy Bills comments and would like hearing from other on here who always have interesting comments- Scott- Notes- and a few others.

Have you thought about a blogger meeting?- I know it is a big deal (ordeal) to put on- I would volunteer to help with it in any way.

One thing- have you or KSHB thought about having live streaming video on the internet for major weather events- or providing live video internet updates during major weather events in addition to breakin's.
I know I am adding more work for you and your team...you have such a huge following- I think this could make KSHB even bigger and better..

As always, you and your team are awesome, thank you for keeping KC and your viewing area so informed..I love the blog and am a faithful viewer as well..

JP

--------------

JP,

We are considering all of the above.  Just the blog takes so much energy and time. A meeting is very likely.

Gary

February 7, 2008 3:17 PM
 

sportsfreaked said:

ANDREW>>>>>>>>
Congrats on the new arrival. Looks as though u may have to wait a little longer to get rid of dial up as diapers and formula is expensive LOL. Brush up on those diaper changing skills...LOL hope all goes well with MOM and sis....
February 7, 2008 3:19 PM
 

Brent said:

No more snow on the 7 day!
8'(

Nothing to look forward to.

-------------------

Brent,

Here is something to look forward to.  I mentioned it in another comment.  We have 40% of our snow season ahead of us.  Now, I know this may mean 3 more 1 inchers for you.  But, won't that be fun?  And, we may add snow back in there.  It is close, but just not as impressive as yesterday.  We have had more snow chances and snows this winter than in many before this.

Gary

February 7, 2008 3:19 PM
 

chfs327 said:

U will look forward to the next storm next week on the 14-15th. KC will finally be hit with 5-8 inches of snow from Paola to harrisonville extending up to achison to marysville.
February 7, 2008 3:34 PM
 

irishrover said:

Great Idea to have "guest" bloggers!  I learn so much from the blog.  I've always been fascinated by weather but only have the knowledge of one meteorology class to help me out.  I was terrified of thunderstorms until I moved out here from NY 20 years ago (I wasn't a child-I was in my 30's then).  It took several years but now I love to stand in the doorway and watch the lightening and the rain.  I miss NY snows but have adjusted ( sadly though...) I learned very early after moving here that the weather was always "on the move" and things would never be "predictable".  That's one of the best features out here... the unpredicatablility.  And it must make it one of the toughest markets to forcast.  I have followed you, Gary, from the "other station" to KSHB and have always felt you were the most accurate.  Now with the LRC, it's even clearer to see.   Letting some of the bloggers who are also knowlegeable (of course not as knowlegable as you and the team
: - } )  blog will give us all a chance to learn even more and will give other perspectives to weather forecasting.  Thanks for being the most fun, most accurate and most professional team in the KC area
February 7, 2008 3:48 PM
 

bellgolf08 said:

BLOGGER MEETING AT THE SPRINT CENTER!!! how bout that idea
February 7, 2008 4:10 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

 bellgolf08 said:
this comment is to andrew. You say you are 17. are you looking at meteorology for a career? if so what schools?

Yes, I am interested in weather, TV Weather, I'm very interested in. Schools I've thought is KU,Oklahoma, and even Online colleges.
http://kcweatherblog.blogspot.com/
 

sportsfreaked said:
ANDREW>>>>>>>>
Congrats on the new arrival. Looks as though u may have to wait a little longer to get rid of dial up as diapers and formula is expensive LOL. Brush up on those diaper changing skills...LOL hope all goes well with MOM and sis....


Yah, I already have enough of the diapers, my 2 yrs old brother whose almost 3 where's them still. We are slowly training him though.
February 7, 2008 4:12 PM
 

Brent said:

"chfs327 said:
U will look forward to the next storm next week on the 14-15th. KC will finally be hit with 5-8 inches of snow from Paola to harrisonville extending up to achison to marysville."

unfortunately you have been wrong about the last 3 storms I think...I'll bet we won't get 5 to 8 inches...
February 7, 2008 4:21 PM
 

Barbara said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Bill, insightful as always!  And thanks to Gary for posting them.  I love the guest blogger idea!  
February 7, 2008 4:51 PM
 

Suburban Sam said:

Bill, what a great post.... a while back I mentioned in one of my blogs that it always seems to miss the KC area and it is what good old Dan Henry used to call the "Tonganoxie Split"  Has anyone ever done any research into this phenomenon? Is there a geographical reason? I wonder what causes this and it would be great to see research and possible theories as to why this happens. And as I said way back I consider myself to be a above average guy in terms of intelligence but this is way out of my league..... I can tell you why a 7-10 split happens in detail but not why the Tonganoxie Split happens....

Sam
February 7, 2008 5:13 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Gary,
I love the idea!  There are some bloggers here who can really post about the weather!  I know that I have always enjoyed reading what Bill and Scott have to say!

Bill,
I really enjoyed your entry!  I look forward to some more from you in the future.

I know Bill teaches school...  He's just an enthusiast/hobbiest like many of us here on the blog. :)

Kristi
February 7, 2008 5:17 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Sam,
It's a myth, according to an article in the LJWorld on June 12, 2005.  Here's the link:  http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2005/jun/12/myths/?living


Kristi
February 7, 2008 5:21 PM
 

chfs327 said:

Andrew. Same here

Im 15 years old and have been wanting to become a meterologist since i was about 8
I already am planning to go to the University of Oklahoma to get my Bacholars Degree in Meterlogy then get hired somewhere
February 7, 2008 5:22 PM
 

Randy Cooper said:

I too am studying to be a meteorologist. i'm 21.
February 7, 2008 5:46 PM
 

simplykristi said:

It's great to see many here that want to be or are studying to be a meteorologist. :)  I would have if I could have handled the math and physics... not my strong points tho. :(  I just enjoy tracking the weather and have been doing it for many, many years.  

Kristi  
February 7, 2008 6:03 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

With Monday's storm I think it will be mainly rain to start out with possibly mixing with a few flurries late. We will be on the back side of a retreating artic air mass and the storm will be bringing warmer air in from the southwest overriding what cold air is left. Sure, it may tap into a bit of cooler air on the back side, but I don't think it will be enough to give Kansas City any snow. Bottom of the line is, with the LRC the way it is and with us getting into now the 2nd full week of February - without strong artic airmasses to keep us cool, we should tend to moderate.
February 7, 2008 6:04 PM
 

juba said:

why didn't it snow today? I was dissapointed, when will we get a big storm again?
byan
February 7, 2008 6:09 PM
 

Brent said:

I would have been a meteorologist...but the mathematical and scientific terms proved too much for my intellect, I prefer to study it on my own....

But I do love weather, possibly as much as Gary does...lol
February 7, 2008 6:59 PM
 

Greg said:

Gary, great idea with the "guest" blog entries. Bill, excellent entry, growing up here, and I think being very close in age, remembering what happened in the 70's and 80's, you nailed it. Although I don't share the love of snow like the rest of the blog's masses, (like I did as a kid) I still am fascinated by our weather. Spring training is just days away...
February 7, 2008 7:02 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

I have wanted to be a meteorologist for years now after i saw my first tornado....I am now obbsessed with learning anything new about meteorology...I am 16 and i live in Marceline, Missouri. I dont no where i am going to go to college though.
February 7, 2008 7:08 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

Your forcast for snow today came true for marceline...it was snowing at 11:30 AM when I walking back up to the high school from lunch...no accumulation though, but it got very windy while it was snowing.
February 7, 2008 7:10 PM
 

rodeomann65 said:

Bill very good job  well you know we don't get the snows like we got back in the 70's  and 80's for some reason  i don't know why  i can remember the winter of 1978 and 1979  it was bad we had snow drifts that was as tall as a home in smoe spots  Bill do you remember that winter
February 7, 2008 7:10 PM
 

sedsinkc said:

Bill wrote in a very concise and easily readable fashion some of the same ideas I have been saying piecemeal in my blog entries over the last month or two.  People around here just have to accept that being a snow lover in this part of the country is trying and often disappointing.  As we saw on Tuesday, just a slight deviation of a few tens of miles in the path of a storm center made all the difference on how much snow KC received.  With every storm that is forecast for this area, people should take a "wait and see" attitude and not be so bitterly disappointed and hard on the local meteorologists when the forecast is off.  Forecasting these snow events has to be the most difficult job aspect for local meteorologists, given the fickle nature of these storms here.

With regard to Bill's comment about a lack of Four Corners lows since the early '90s, I wonder whether that in any way ties into the long-term drought the West has been suffering?  With a couple of exceptions, much of the Southwest U.S. has had drought conditions for many years now.  Lake Mead and Lake Powell have been at or near record low water levels recently due to the long-term drought.

One other interesting climatological note is that the late '70s was a period of cooler than normal temperatures and speculation was rampant then that we were headed into a new Ice Age.  1992 was also a cool year, which was probably due in large part to the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in the Philippines in August 1991.  It was the second-largest volcanic eruption of the 20th century and loaded the stratosphere with sulfuric acid aerosols that cooled the earth and gave us some spectacular sunsets in late 1991 and early 1992.  So the snowier winters in KC seem to correlate to cooler than normal temperatures, which have been a scarcity in recent years.
February 7, 2008 7:44 PM
 

Greg said:

Where is everybody?
February 7, 2008 8:21 PM
 

sedsinkc said:

It's been a busy week, folks are probably resting up!!
February 7, 2008 8:25 PM
 

Randy Cooper said:

i'm gonna be applying for gary's weather internship in a year or so. lol
February 7, 2008 8:31 PM
 

bellgolf08 said:

andrew-well good luck to you wherever you go. i am going to mu to study atmospheric science. thinking i am want to get my masters and go to the NSSL not sure yet
February 7, 2008 8:31 PM
 

Randy Cooper said:

i'm gonna be applying for gary's weather internship in a year or so. lol
February 7, 2008 8:35 PM
 

juniorfan32 said:

TOnganoxie split is not real!  The house I bought 2 years ago was damaged by the tornado of 2000 instead of reroofing the previous owners added another story.  Also the willow tree in my back yard was damaged and chunks keep falling off still.  You can also tell some of the trees were broken off and have regrown.  We also had 2" hail a few years ago with that early spring storm that spawned a tornado warning.  I would say we aren't spared the bad weather.  Maybe we are just on the edge of the "dome"
February 7, 2008 8:36 PM
 

Matt P said:

  Bill, great job.  I'm not surprised.  Thirty years ago tonight, we were watching the great Blizzard of 1978 finally slow down (it had started the previous morning).  We had  "just" 28 inches of snow where we lived. On January 21, we had 21 inches, but a major rain event in between washed a lot away.  Woonsocket, RI had 55 inches.  Here are some links and a few facts posted in the Providence (RI) Journal.  Some of the facts the paper provided are amazing.  


http://www.thewesterlysun.com/articles/2008/02/06/news/free_news/doc47a9e5c81991f259942844.txt

http://www.projo.com/extra/2008/blizzard/



Deepest Weather Service listed unofficial snowfall: 54 inches, Woonsocket.

Least unofficial snowfall: 10 inches, Block Island.

Most intense snowfall: 3 inches/hour Feb. 6., 7 p.m.-8 p.m.

Biggest wind gust: 58 knots, or 67 mph, 8 p.m., Feb. 6.

Duration: Began 10:10 a.m., Feb. 6. Ended 10:44 p.m. Feb. 7.

Deaths attributed to Blizzard: 21 (R.I.)

Cars abandoned on Routes 95, 195, 146 in greater Providence: 1,950.

Abandoned cars towed from Providence streets: 3,000.

Drivers who spent first night in cars: 1,000.

Motorists rescued by R.I. National Guard: 2,968.

Children stranded overnight in schools: 900.

Shelters opened: 66.

Persons sheltered: 9,150.

Trips by National Guard ferrying doctors, nurses, medicine: 3,527.

Homes, businesses losing electric power: 11,800.

U.S. military rescue force: 478 soldiers, 178 pieces of equipment.

Snow clearing equipment rented from Buffalo, N.Y.: 100 pieces.

City's initial estimate of snowclearing force: 100 pieces.

City's later estimate of snowclearing force: 8 pieces.

State of emergency declared: 5 p.m., Feb. 6.

Providence reopened to business: Feb. 13.

Cost to state: $6.6 million, expenses and lost taxes.

Total federal disaster assistance: $14,841,484.

Federal snow removal aid: $4,272,116.

Federal Food Stamps: $7,665,768 (to an estimated 90,000 persons).

Lost wages, private sector: $30 million.

Workers who lost wages: 152,000.

Unemployment benefits paid: $8 million

Homes damaged: 30.

Looting suspects charged: 25.


COMPILED by BRIAN C. JONES


February 7, 2008 8:43 PM
 

Greg said:

The moisture we have been receiving this winter has been great, might just lead to a great growing season. Its nice for change not to have a bone-dry winter! As long as we can keep the usual spring flooding to a minimum. juniorfan, I think the tonganoxie split was coined by Dan Henry, he almost seems prophetic now.
February 7, 2008 9:01 PM
 

Greg said:

Matt P, Wow, being a civil servant myself, I can't even imagine...
February 7, 2008 9:09 PM
 

Randy Cooper said:

i'm gonna be applying for gary's weather internship in a year or so. lol
February 7, 2008 9:10 PM
 

Randy Cooper said:

i dont  know why that appeared twice. lol i only sent it once
February 7, 2008 9:12 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Anybody know how great online colleges are? One guy told me that you can get out in 2 yrs.
February 7, 2008 9:14 PM
 

ksdotte said:

To the bloggers who want to be meterologists;
Study your physics and math classes well, mainly the upper level math classes.
Spent most of my first 2 years at college getting rid of all the pre requs. When I finally got the actual weather stuff, fell flat. Atmospheric Physics & Thermodynamics. So ended up getting into computers instead.
Great post by Bill, had forgotten about some of those winters.
February 7, 2008 9:21 PM
 

sertorius said:

Good late evening to the Gary, Brett, Jeremy, Jeff and to all fellow Blogers!!!!

I hope everybody is having a great night!!!

A few random musings (LOL)

1. First and foremost thanks to everyone for the kind words and supportive comments this afternoon and tonight-they are appreciated beyond words. Thanks also to Gary, Brett, Jeremy, and Jeff for this opportunity-it was an honor to say the least!!! Furthermore, the comments today and tonight show very clearly how incredible this Blog is and what a great place it is to discuss the weather-again, thanks sooo much!!


2. I really think Gary has come up with a fantastic idea with this. While the Blog is already great, this will make it even more interactive and fascinating/interesting. There are so many Bloggers on here who have a much better weather acumen than I and it will be very interesting to read their ideas. Imagine an entry from Scott or pvt.murphy or Central OP or Notes or simplykristi-the list is endless!!!! Again, great idea Gary!!!!


3. I had planned on typing up some responses to what has been written, but I have just returned home from conducting parent/teacher conferences and also have 2 boys  a bit under the weather so I am pretty wiped out!! (Yes, I did sneak some peeks during conferences-I am so bad!!!!) Hopefully tomorrow I can respond to some of the comments!!


4. One other random thought concerning early next week: to my little hobbyist mind, the most important thing right now is that the storm is indeed there just as it should be. How it all plays out is of course still  up in the air and it played out much different in November than December but now, like in December, there is much colder air available in Canada than we had in November. Also, last week at this time nobody was even thinking about Tuesday and the models did not begin to latch onto Tuesday’s possibility until about Sunday. Furthermore, in December, it was not until about 12-19 that the models really honed in what was coming on the 21st. So, there is for sure something to track and keep our eyes on!!!!


Have a great night everybody and again, thanks so much for the kind words!!! Gary, again, thank you for the opportunity and what a great idea!!!!

Bill in Lawrence

-----------------------

Bill,

Thank you for your participation.  We will try to do this around once a month, depending on the weather situation.

Great observations! Excellent observations on picking out the basics of how the LRC actually works for forecasting, something we all have been learning to use together in this blog.  Yes, Monday and Tuesday's storm is something we will have to pay close attention to.

I will have a blog on this and my January 2nd 45 day forecast on Friday. 

Have a great night everyone,

Gary

February 7, 2008 10:19 PM
 

KCwxforecaster said:

Matt,

Great post on the Blizzard of 1978. I lived through that blizzard in RI, albeit at 1 year old. Maybe it got me started in weather. I've since lived through major Nor'easters, including the '93 and '96 superstorms, the latter of which measured 33" of snow and 5 foot drifts. needless to say, these storms around here, even if I had received the foot in northern MO instead of the 0.5" I received here, are still "boring" by my standards.

Since this specific blog is about the LRC, I was hoping someone (namely Gary) would comment on the rollercoaster forecasts over the last few days. I'm sure one of Gary's weather weenies here logs every 7 day forecast of temperatures, and while he has the 3 degree guarantee the day the forecast is "locked in" for the next day, no one ever seems to notice his ability to draw viewers with dramatic and sometimes off the wall forecasts.

Take for example (yes this is on tape) Brett comes on several days ago and forecasts a high of 18 for Saturday a low of 6 Sunday morning and a high of 19 Sunday. Now Saturday's high as of 5 minutes ago is projected at 53. If it ends up at 52 say, Gary claims "whoopee, another one for us", but the people that planned for the weekend have every right to cry foul -- at least it's it's a 35 degree warming trend vs. cooler. Forecasts change and certainly you want them to get more accurate as you get closer, but these wild swings are a common occurrence and show a tendency to model hug rather than stand behind the gentle trends from day to day offered by the LRC. Seems quire contradictory to me despite Bill's long exaspirating diatribe.

**************

Model hug?  Seems like you don't pay very close attention to how we forecast.  Rarely forecasting what the models are offering.  If you really follow the blog you would see we often post maps or refer to models and say why we don't agree with it.

Forecasts 4+ days out change and when we are dealing with snow cover, wind change, and an artic front within 100 miles of the city the forecast will change.  And in this case change often.  If you have paid attention to other stations everyone has varied greatly.  I don't bet on the weather, but I'd put money on our forecasts anyday and if I found takers maybe I could retire earlier:)

We welcome anyone to keep track of our forecasts versus others over a period of time. 

BTW...the LRC is not used to forecast surface temperature over the short term.  The LRC focuses on 500mb level.

Jeremy

February 7, 2008 10:32 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

KCwxforecaster,

Are you a NWS Employee?

***************

Andrew,

All comments are welcome.  Just like we love all challenges.

Jeremy

February 7, 2008 10:52 PM
 

CentralOP2 said:

The GFS looks horribly warm in the extended range with storms that have marginal amounts of cold air to produce snow. I am not impressed. Winter lasts much longer in the Midwest and Northeast compared with our location in the Plains.

---------------

Don't give up yet on winter!  It has some more left including a grand finale!

Gary

February 7, 2008 10:59 PM
 

SnowMan said:

Bill, great post!  And if you write that book, I will definitely buy a copy.  As a life-long Kansas City resident (40 some years), I can totally relate to your comments.  I remember growing up watching Dan Henry, Dave Dusik and Fred Browski covering those 4-corners lows track along the KS/OK border and then turn northeast around Joplin and Springfield.  It seems like those happened a lot back then, yet not nearly as often anymore.  Or maybe my memory is skewed.  Anyway, I love that storm track...it seems like it used to happen more often...I'll definitely buy a copy of your book...and great post!  As your students would say, "Tight!"
February 7, 2008 11:15 PM
 

Nick Rau said:

First of all, great blog Bill once again you lay it out there keep up the good work.  By the way I did e-mail you Gary with the pics. of the snow from the storm, one of them is when the thundersnow/sleet was falling.  this I think is the biggest snow from one storm that I remember here, not sure if that is absolutely true but it is DEEP so there looks like we will lose some of it Sat. but not all of it here it will be interesting to see how warm we will be here, there seems to also be a temp. cut-off if you will when warm-ups surge in and we have been much cooler than K.C. on many occasions, due to snow most of the time but also due to track of storm systems and air masses like earlier this week when KCI hit 67 and we only got to 45.
February 7, 2008 11:17 PM
 

mmancubfan said:

KCwxForecaster said: "Take for example (yes this is on tape) Brett comes on several days ago and forecasts a high of 18 for Saturday a low of 6 Sunday morning and a high of 19 Sunday. Now Saturday's high as of 5 minutes ago is projected at 53. If it ends up at 52 say, Gary claims "whoopee, another one for us", but the people that planned for the weekend have every right to cry foul -- at least it's it's a 35 degree warming trend vs. cooler"

You tell me who in their right mind would ever "plan a weekend" on a forecast 4-5 days in advance this time of year?

You either lived in the NorthEast too long or don't know the Midwest like you should.

As a person born and raised in Illinois who has lived in MO and KS for the last 13 years, there is no way I would look at a Tue forecast and say.."Hey the forecast is for cold temps on Sat and Sun, lets not go anywhere and stay inside...

Suggestion for you.  Change your sig to BitterRivalKCwxforecaster  or even better Ican'tmeasuresnowcorrectlyKCwxforecaster.  Either way... your "weather weenies" quote was quite funny.  Seems like you know alot about being a hot dog!!!  
February 7, 2008 11:46 PM
 

Bryan said:

Day 15 on the GFS looks like a great storm! Too bad it probably wont be there on the next model run!

Bryan
February 8, 2008 12:09 AM
 

RickMckc said:

Nice entry, Bill. I had to laugh when I read:

"In reality, the snow lovers who should be the most disappointed are those who live between KCI and the Broadway Bridge-when is the last time KCI had a snowfall greater than 4 inches-December 2005??"

I am so glad someone has finally acknowledged my pain. :-)

Rick @ I-29 & 64th Street
February 8, 2008 12:24 AM
 

simplykristi said:

WOW  I didn't realize how important the four corner lows was to our winter weather.  It just hit me reading the comments....   Our storms used to come out of the four corners and they haven't in awhile..  Thanks for remembering the 4-corner lows.  I had totally forgotten about them.  It makes total sense to me now.

Kristi
February 8, 2008 12:24 AM
 

Matt P said:

KCwxforecaster,
   Thanks.  Actually, a couple of posts ago I asked Gary about the same fluctuation with this weekend's temps. Gary mentioned the impending cold front.  He said he thought that it would push more towards Chicago, which would probably spare us.  You mention the 96 storm with 33 inches. Are you thinking of the April Fool's storm of 1997?  I remember that one pretty well.  The snow-removal crews were amazing. I was in Worcester at the time and we had 33 inches. The storm ended around 7 a.m. and our streets were clear before lunch.  However, in '96 we kept getting hammered. We were sent home five Fridays in a row and the smallest storm was 14 inches.  Then on April 6 we got another 20 inches. That same spring, it snowed just north of us in late May, a few days after Memorial Day.
  It's funny when you say the 12-inch storms are "boring".  I totally agree. But I have to say that the thunderstorms in New England are pretty boring compared to those here. Central Mass has its share of severe weather (it's actually fifth in the nation for tornadoes per square mile), but very few rival those in the plains.
February 8, 2008 12:26 AM
 

Matt P said:

Bill, great post.  Not being a "local", it was enlightening.  
Bob in OP, one of the things you mentioned was about the storms in the northeast.  Many times when we had nor'easters, they would start out as a low coming up the coast meeting an Alberta Clipper. Once they met (usually south of Long Island), they would pick up copious amounts of moisture and just dump it on top of us. Many times a high off of Greenland will block the newly-formed low from advancing. That just leads to lots and lots of snow. If you look at some of the big nor'easters (the 1978 is one of the most famous), they were like winter hurricanes, loaded with lots of moisture and plenty of wind.  In the movie "the Perfect Storm" there are homes being swept into the sea. That is actual footage from that storm. The '78 blizzard took out a lot of homes. Hull, MA, just south of Boston, had lots of flooding. If you google the 1978 New England Blizzard and look at the link for Hull, you will see some incredible pictures.
February 8, 2008 12:37 AM
 

ShawnP said:

Found this today and some interesting pictures for Snow Lovers.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/box/papers/blizzard78/mainblizzardof78.htm

Click the slide presentation and you will see some incredible pictures.

*************

Great pictures!  I remember seeing old postcard pictures from the part of MN where I lived of winter past.  The pictures had drifts 3 times as high as vehicles and also trains that drove thru snow tunnels.  Crazy stuff.  I think those photos give many people today the impression that those storms should happen every year:)

Jeremy

February 8, 2008 1:12 AM
 

KSuds said:

I'm predicting a 10" snowfall for the whole viewing area, with 15-20" northwest sometime in early March (4-8th).  This is based on the weather model I have created myself.  Since weather models are still confusing to mel, I came up with one I understand.  It's called the "GFO", aka "Gut Feeling Observation".  How accurate does the team think it will be on those dates?  

****************

For your sake I hope you are correct.  Gut instinct is almost always the best way to forecast.  If my gut told me that it may also make me sick though:)  Gary is writing up an LRC blog right now.  Check for that in about an hour.

Jeremy

February 8, 2008 6:15 AM
 

elevatorsout said:

As a layman observer of weather phenomenon, I too have noticed what Bill has noticed - "the storm that almost was."  I have also noticed the "storm that wasn't supposed to be" on occasion.  Specifically, I am thinking of the October 1997 surprise.  I don't recall any KC meteoroligists predicting the huge downfall of snow in October (my apologies to Gary if he did.)  In the end, KC has a long history of "almost was's" and "was nevers's."  Is there some type of snow repelling vortex over KC???  Anyhow, I realize predicting snow is a complicated and unpredictable science, so I don't blame the meteorologists - it's just interesting to ponder.  Thanks for the insight Bill.
February 8, 2008 3:00 PM
 

best ways to make money said:

WFTV has offered a string of good reports so far in sweeps month. I especially liked Kevin Oliver's look at what could happen to the space shuttles after their missions end. There was an eye- opening report on the jump in luggage theft at Orlando International
March 30, 2008 8:38 PM
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