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LRC long range forecast verification & looking forward

Happy Friday bloggers,

If you are a regular NBC Action Weather blogger, then you know a lot about the LRC.  The LRC stands for Lezak's Recurring Cycle and was actually named by you, the NBC Action Weather Bloggers a couple of years ago.  I have made two presentations of the LRC at national conferences, last year at the National Weather Association's meeting in Reno, NV, and also three years ago in Washington, D.C. at the American Meteorological Society's joint meeting of the Broadcasting and Weather Analysis & Forecasting conferences.  You can read about the LRC if you just go back into the archives of our blog.  All you have to do is click the back arrow on the calendar in the upper right part of the blog page.  Go back to November, then click on November 16th when we issued our winter forecast.  And I will be writing up a much more extensive report on the LRC in the next few months.

We started using my theory to make longer range forecasts during the past two years.  A lot of skeptics have said, "so even if the LRC exists how does it help you in forecasting?"  This was  a great question, and finally during the past two years we have not only made forecasts, but they have been quite accurate 30, 60 and even 90 days out, almost to the day.  This year we have taken it a step further.  In the past we would always compare the pattern of today with what happened the last time through the cycle and try to explain that it is the "same pattern".  And, it isn't just one day, but every day through the weather pattern that is cycling.  Well, this year we did something different so no one could say it is a coincidence.  In the January 2nd post, I showed the weather pattern in late November into early December that had already happened.  We knew we were in a, roughly, 54 day cycle.  We projected the November and December pattern forward and picked the dates in the future that the pattern would look exactly like.  We then made our forecast based on the cycle we are still in now.  Not only did the pattern verify exactly on those dates, as we showed it would, but the entire forecast has been amazingly accurate.  Let's take a look:

We are 37 days into the long range forecast we issued on January 2nd, 2008.  I will show the forecast exactly how it was written, and then we will see how it verified.

45 day forecast issued January 2nd:

January 3-15th:  There will be two big warming stretches that could put us up into the 60s a couple of days.  But, it will be broken up by two storm systems.  One of the storms will arrive around January 8th-9th.  This one will produce some rain and possibly some snow, but it is a storm that will intensify as it passes us.  The second storm will arrive around January 12th -15th.  This one could come as a very cold air mass is moving in from Canada.

January 15th-25th:

Arctic air will build in strength across Canada.  It will be the coldest air of this entire winter up there with temperatures possibly down to 40 degrees below zero or even lower.  A couple of strong Arctic fronts will move through Kansas City and the United States should go into the deep freeze before the end of the month.

January 25th -February 20th:

The series of wet and strong storm systems that affected us in October and again in December will return.  I think they will be even stronger this time.  And, the Arctic air will be around for each of the storm systems.  We will have at least 4, and perhaps as many as 7 storm systems between January 25th and February 20th.

How did the forecasts, above, verify?

January 3rd-15th verification:  This wouldn't be as difficult as it is just the next 12 days from when the forecast was issued.  It warmed up into the 50s and 60s from the 5th through the 7th.  A wet storm came through with the southern Missouri tornado outbreak on the 7th.  It warmed up briefly on the 11th, and the temperatures were way above average during this stretch of days.  And a storm did arrive, one day after we thought it would on the leading edge of an Arctic air mass.  GRADE:  A-

January 15th-25th verification:  While most long range forecasts were expecting a warm January, the LRC was able to show exactly how the weather pattern would set up and look.  Our weather team at NBC Action News issued an Arctic Air Watch for the second half of January.  It did drop to 40 degrees below zero over Canada and the United States did go into the deep freeze.  Kansas City dropped to 11 degrees for a high on the 19th.  Kansas City had a low of -4 on January 19th and -3 on January 24th.  The temperatures were way below average during this forecast period (9.5 degrees below average).  And a storm did move in at the beginning of the Arctic outbreak, as forecast in the first period above.  Grade:  A+

January 25th-February 20th verification:  The forecast called for a series of four storm systems, perhaps as many as 5, 6, or 7.  I explained how they would be very similar to the ones that occurred in October and again in December.  We just experienced the four storm systems, and they can be shown to be directly related to the ones that happened in October and again in December (and I will be making a presentation to show this).  But, were they stronger and more widespread?  They weren't for our local region.  So, I was only wrong about the intensity.  They varied in strength compared to the storm systems in the previous two cycles, but some were weaker and others were about the same strength, and we had wet storm systems in all three cycles.  I said that we may have a 5th, 6th, and 7th storm system.  In November these storm systems were disguised as they went north of Kansas City when we had our long dry spell.  When this drier part of the pattern returned, the same storm systems that tracked north of us in November, tracked much farther south this time.  And, we ended up getting three more storm systems and it was not dry the second time through the cycle.  So, what will happen now? We are in that 5th through 7th storm system part of the pattern during the next two weeks.  They are still a bit suspect but the next one is showing up for early next week.  Let's see what happens.  Grade:  B

Remember, this weather pattern is still cycling and winter is not over.  Kansas City is about 60% of the way through our snow season as we average around 13 inches of snow by February 8th.  There is still 40% of the snow season ahead of us.  Parts of our viewing area are now over 30 inches of snow for the season.  I am still expecting these areas to get close to 50 inches by the time we are done.  We will be issuing our next long range forecast in a few days.  How do you think we did?   Is this something you would like us to continue doing?  We will try to get even more specific on the next forecast.

Storm #5 will be moving by on Monday & Tuesday.  This one has been looking a bit different on each model run that comes out.  This storm on the cycle in November was flat and well north of Kansas City, but later in December it was more amplified, had a southern extension and was a more significant storm.  Which version will it be this time?

We will be discussing this on our newscasts at 11 AM this morning, 5, 6, and 10 PM tonight, and don't forget our brand new weekend morning newscasts at 8 AM Saturday and Sunday! 

Gary

 

Published Friday, February 08, 2008 6:45 AM by glezak

Comments

 

Trentonite said:

Gary,

I thought you and the team did an outstanding job!!  I think you will see some negativity out of this because of the geographic area that this blog covers.  The problem arises when you blog your long range forecasts, people reading this blog think that it applies to their specific area.  Keep up the great work.  You nailed our snow amount on Tues/Wed.  We had between 8 and 9 inches in Trenton.  Chillicothe however only had about half that.  If this winter is any indication of what spring has to bring, it will be a very wild ride!

Luke

----------------

Luke,

Thank you!  And, if we would have just used the LRC in this past storm we would have known that the snowfall pattern would have been the same as the other ones this season.  We thought about it and should have just had faith in the theory.

Gary

February 8, 2008 8:44 AM
 

sertorius said:

Gary:

Not much time but was on a short break during conferences and was checking in!! Awseome write up and thanks so much for sharing-I know that took quite alot of work to get together!!! There is nothing out there that says you have to show a forcast verification on the Blog and the fact that you have, I think, says alot about you and the team-kudos to you!!!!

I think the forcast issued in January was spot on and I would probably have given you a B+ to A- for the past 10 days as hey, the storms were there and in the time frame you said they would be!! Awesome work!!

Opps, here comes some parents!!! Have a great day!! I'm still watching Monday/Tuesday out of the corner of my eye.....

Bill in Lawrence

------------------

Bill,

Thanks!  And, have a great weekend.

Gary

February 8, 2008 8:50 AM
 

Bob in OP said:

Gary,

Well done! This write-up on the LRC is very helpful and informative...

Thanks!

Bob
February 8, 2008 8:53 AM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Nice Job Gary!!

Announcement!

Faith Morgan Stafford was born this Morning at 5 am.

************

Congrats Andrew...and to the rest of your family.  Make sure to help your mom out!

Jeremy

February 8, 2008 9:06 AM
 

pattyd said:

I'm always impressed!  Keep up the good work.

Patty
February 8, 2008 9:13 AM
 

mamaof3girls said:

I would love to see another long range forecast. I need one that goes into Spring so I know when to plant my flowers in case we have another late freeze. I went by the LRC and your long range forecast last year and did not lose any plants (money) because of what you said. While everyone else was planting I held off and so did my mom and dad. They lost plants and we did not.  So my answer is "yes" please do!!! I believe it is very reliable!! Keep up the great work. Have a good weekend.
Congrats to you Andrew and your family. I love your sissy's name...very pretty!!
Monica
Pleasanton KS

----------------

Monica,

We will do one sometime next week.  It will take some time to look over the maps and decide how this pattern will act in March and April.

Have a great day.

Gary

February 8, 2008 9:21 AM
 

downtowncobb said:

Hey Gary - longtime lurker, first time blogger.  First off the LRC is fascinating! I've always been cynical about the local forecasts until I started reading this blog.  More often than not you seem to be pretty accurate and the way you explain it is very simple for the meterological inept to understand.  Now to the selfish part, what is the LRC saying for the two most important days of the year, St.Patty's day (March 17) and the Royals home opener (April 8)?

Thanks again, Jacob

--------------

Jacob,

These are important days to remember.   As we make the forecast next week I will attempt to make a more specific forecast for certain important dates.

Welcome to the blog!

Gary

February 8, 2008 9:22 AM
 

reafamily said:

Great job, Gary!

I agree with Bill on the B+ - A- range for the current section. You called the systems and they were there; they just had different travel plans than many people wanted.

The Monday/Tuesday storm will come through for the south because I have to take some students to Jefferson City for a meeting and won't be home to enjoy it! lol

Pat

--------------

Pat,

Maybe it will hit Jefferson City!  Thanks for the supporting comments.

Gary

February 8, 2008 9:22 AM
 

momof5 said:

Cograts Andrew! Every child is a blessing! Great job Gary and weather team, it is always a joy to watch you on TV, you clearly love what you do.
February 8, 2008 9:28 AM
 

LadyBug said:

Gary,

I really enjoy your long term forcasts.  They are very helpful and I hope that you continued to share them with us bloggers.  Thanks again for all the great info.

Melanie
February 8, 2008 9:32 AM
 

bellgolf08 said:

Gary, another great blog. I have noticed a few of us were wondering what you thing the spring might hold for us. Could we get a sneek peak?

-----------

Let's wait until we do more analysis and it should be ready next week.

Gary

February 8, 2008 9:33 AM
 

Debbie Wagy said:

Gary,

Thank you so much for keeping us so well informed!  Don't worry about the people upset about the accumulations!  We knew it was going to snow, and that is enough to be prepared and that is the most important thing!  I always watch your forecasts, listen to you on KMBZ in the mornings and regularly check the Action Weather Blog.  I have two girls that know if Gary says it, it will most likely happen!  Thanks for all you do!!

-----------------------

Thank you so much!  Say hi to the girls.

Gary

February 8, 2008 9:48 AM
 

dogncatmom said:

Gary, thank you for the recap.  I think you and the team did a pretty great job!

I would love you to continue giving us long range forecasts.  I work for a lawn service and it is very helpful to me in our business.  I haven't quite made believers out of my co-workers yet.  But I'm working on it!!!  :)

Patti

----------------

Patti,

Yeah, we haven't quite made believers out of a lot of people.  We will continue working on the LRC and using it wisely!

Gary

February 8, 2008 9:48 AM
 

shellmeister said:

CONGRATULATIONS on your new baby sister Andrew!!  I love her name!!

Gary, GREAT report on the results/verification of the LRC!!  It is SO fascinating to see it play out!  I had to laugh the other day as I was rescheduling a doctor appointment for my father...when the receptionist offered up one for early next week, I said, "No, let's try another day as we will be having another storm."  How cool is that??  Your LRC is helping me with my scheduling!!!

I love this blog and am anxiously awaiting a "meeting of the minds" one of these days soon.  I too will volunteer to help in any way possible, just let me know.

Shelly
February 8, 2008 9:53 AM
 

frigate said:

Gary,

As always, I am very impressed with the great job you and the weather team does!
I'm looking forward with much anticipation to your spring forecast, especially in regard to this years severe weather possibilities. I'm curious if you have any thoughts on the recent tornado outbreak? Though not unheard of, of having tornado outbreaks so early in the season, it does seem strange with the massive degree this outbreak was for this time of the year and the amount of large EF3 and EF4 tornadoes. One can only imagine how many more deaths there would have been without all the early warnings. So do you think this was just an unique situation or that this spring could be a more violent one for many parts of the counrty? Can anything be learned from this latest outbreak and its relation to the LRC?

--------------

Jeff,

When we have early season outbreaks they will have a strong potential of having the EF 3 and EF 4 tornadoes.  The winds aloft are stronger and if you bring in a spring airmass underneath the right upper level pattern then it is just bombs away.  We still need to look at how this pattern is going to react to the weakening jet stream during March through June.  I will try to address this questions in the forecast next week.

Gary

February 8, 2008 10:25 AM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

I never doubted you'd grade your forecast with at least a B+ if not higher.  Nor did I ever doubt that "4-7 storm systems" over a 20-30 day period would verify.  I would imagine that'll be the case for any 20-30 period anytime since I see that as a fairly ambiguous and broad claim.

Could you put together a list of dates in October, December, and Jan/Feb that are supposed to correlate with each other.  I'm curious to see how you pair up the sequence of heavy, wet storms from October to those from December and also the more recent ones with specific dates.

---------------------

Notes,

I can tell you that there will likely be 4 storm systems next year between those same dates.  But, here is the difference.  These storm systems were all related.  We knew how they would look, act, and produce.  It is not a coincidence that the similar precipitation patterns keep repeating to the same areas.  Last year it was Pleasanton, KS that had the 30 inches of snow.  This year it is Lawrence, Topeka, Platte City, Cameron, St. Joseph that are consistently getting the heavier snows.  And, it isn't a coincidence.  Last year the LRC had storm systems that repeated and they all had similar characteristics to that year.  And, this year the storms are all related and unique to this LRC.  So, when I said there would be 4 storm systems, and perhaps a 5th, 6th, and 7th one, it wasn't just blindly guessing.  It was using the theory, the pattern we were in and being able to show that they are all related. I can do it today.  Next year will be a completely different pattern.

We believe this year's LRC began around October 7th to 10th.  The old pattern had seemingly finally been wiped out, and the new pattern had started.  I am not counting the wet storm of October 7th to 8th as I think it was the final version of last year's "the storm" storm.

So, here are the dates:

  1. October 13th
  2. October 17th-18th
  3. October 21st-22nd
  4. October 26th

 

  1. December 1st
  2. December 8th
  3. December 10th-11th
  4. December 15th

 

  1. January 25th
  2. January 29th
  3. February 3rd
  4. February 5th-6th

Each time through the cycle they varied in strength, but they were all there.  And, I am expecting them to all come back again in March, which will be included in my forecast next week. 

The 5th through 7th storms, which on today's GFS run are all sort of like a split between the November and end of December verisons, are there.  Let's see how they look tomorrow.  Storm track #3 (as described in the winter forecast) is trying to take over right now.  Let's see what happens.

Gary

February 8, 2008 10:45 AM
 

Tim in West Shawnee said:

Gary & Team,

On December 22nd we had a significant storm move thru the area: http://tinyurl.com/27dey6

54 days (LRC's time period this year) later brings us to February 14th.  I don't see such a storm showing up on the models?
http://tinyurl.com/28be35

Have the models just not caught up to the LRC yet, or is there another explanation for this?

Thanks,
Tim
February 8, 2008 10:50 AM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

Last week, you stated that some storms "flip-flopped" or reversed positions between the December and then the Jan/Feb sequences...do you know when that will happen?  Can they reverse positions again later in the cycle?  Do they go back to "normal" the next time around?

---------------------

Notes,

This kind of discussion does sound a bit crazy, don't you think?  LOL  I am not sure if they will flip flop again, but if you look a the last two storm systems, they both ended up looking very similar as they moved through the "long term" longwave trough located just east of us.

Gary

February 8, 2008 10:51 AM
 

Holmes524 said:

Gary & Weatherteam,
Excellent work.  I think the LRC is fabulous.  My partner in crime, Joy, kept saying on this last storm, Gary's motto this season is 1-4 and no more.  Dead on for us in the Northland.  I'm looking forward to the next 45 day forecast.  

Andrew, Happy Birthday to little Faith.  (I guess you couldn't convince her to put Gary's name in there anywhere huh? LOL)

Ann
February 8, 2008 10:58 AM
 

dougbce said:

"Storm #5 will be moving by on Monday & Tuesday.  This one has been looking a bit different on each model run that comes out.  This storm on the cycle in November was flat and well north of Kansas City, but later in December it was more amplified, had a southern extension and was a more significant storm.  Which version will it be this time?"

Gary, how can Storm #5 this coming Monday be related to anything in November?  I'm not bashing just trying to figure it out.  If my math is right Monday is Feb 11, 54 days before is Dec 18, and 54 days before is Oct 25.  Yes I know the cycle can go a few days higher or lower but a whole week?

Congrats Andrew!!!!!

----------------

Very good question!  As we analyze the data for our next long range forecast we will try to pin down the exact length of the cycle.  It could be closer to 51 or 52 days.  Because right now we believe we are around December 19th or so.  This would put us around 51 days.  We will try to firm this up early next week.  If it is 51 days or so, then it makes a bit more sense.  In December it certainly seemed to be around 54 days, so let's see.  This is why the LRC works better and better as a forecasting tool after we get past the first of the year.  We gain confidence! The cycle is firmed up and easier to see as you have gone into the next one!  And, when I say November I am being a bit sloppy with my words.  I am meaning the very end of October through the first 10 days of November.

Gary

 

February 8, 2008 11:06 AM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

Regarding just the first "storm":  

By my count, October 13th and December 1st are closer to around 48 days apart rather than 54.  

If there is a 6-day variance in one direction, so if the cycle is +/- 6 days, that means you have about a 13-day (nearly two-week) window...that's ambiguous enough that I feel I could find correlations between any storms any time.  

Do you see what I mean?  Do you see why this seems to many of us like data is being manipulated and forced into some preconcieved notion of a pattern?

------------------

Yes, Notes, I do see what you mean.  What if the cycle is really around 50 or 51 days.  Our first guess may have been off.  Last year we thought it was 42 days, and then as we moved through January into February we realized it was more like 45 days.  And, this is what we were able to show when I put my presentation together.  So, our first guess will not have been off by that much at all.  It may very well be 50 to 51 days, which seems to make more sense and it does line up.  Wouldn't you agree, whether you believe in it or not?

Gary

February 8, 2008 11:16 AM
 

Luthur said:

Gary -

Just a suggestion... you should create a seperate page that describes the LRC.  It would be more in depth and clean up the blog a bit.  That way you don't have to type out what it is everytime you talk about it.  You can just write... goto this link for information on the LRC. Just a thought.

-----------------

I need to make a FAQ page!  I didn't go into all of the details today, as I did refer back to November 16th.  I think we will be making an FAQ page sometime soon.

Gary

February 8, 2008 11:17 AM
 

W0XDL said:

Weather Team,

I continue to be sold on the LRC.  Do you think this is a phenomenon specific for our region or one that could be shown true anywhere in the world?

It is surprising that no one thought of this before.  Perhaps they did but lacked the motivation to do such an excellent job documenting it to support the theory.  I guess if it continues to prove itself, the LRC will become the LRL..."Lezak's Recurring Law!"

Have a great weekend everyone and I'm hoping for some fun early next week.

DL

------------------

DL,

There is only one meteorologist from decades ago that had an idea somewhat similar to the LRC, not quite the same but the meteorological community just doesn't know about this yet.  

And, this can be used for most everyone in the northern hemisphere.  I am sure something similar happens in the southern hemisphere, but I haven't studied that yet.

Gary

 

February 8, 2008 12:17 PM
 

dougbce said:

And I as well can see the LRC and have some belief in it.  Thanks for the previous response Gary.

------------------------

Thanks Doug,

We keep taking baby steps every year trying to find new ways to show it.  And, when we resume our research this summer we will try to find some physical reasons for its creation.

Gary

February 8, 2008 12:34 PM
 

mamaof3girls said:

Hi!! Any chance that precip just to my south will make it to me today? Man...it is literally just miles away from me!! :o) That FAQ page sounds like a great idea for you....would cut down on you having to write it all the time.
Monica
Pleasanton KS

---------------

Monica,

You may get a sprinkle!  I have to figure out how to make the FAQ page.

Gary

February 8, 2008 12:36 PM
 

simplykristi said:

You don't have to convince me about the LRC...  I am already a believer!  It's fascinating to watch.

Andrew,
Congrats on your new little sister! :)  I love the name. :)

Kristi
February 8, 2008 1:21 PM
 

WeatherCop2112 said:

Here's my problem with the LRC...it's just so vague. To wit: "January 25th-February 20th verification:  The forecast called for a series of four storm systems, perhaps as many as 5, 6, or 7."

So for a one month period you're saying we could have anywhere from 4-7 "storms" (which I've come to learn is really nothing more than any kind of percipitation when the term is used by local meteorologists). Have you really cracked some mystic code with the LRC or can we safely assume that over the course of a month in the dead of winter we'll usually see about 4 days of percipitation?

-----------------

Your logic is sound!  There will likely be 4 to 7 storm systems in our area during that particular stretch.  The LRC for any particular year is unique, so these storm systems are all related in a way.  So, we know what they will look like as they approach, and if one is not showing up on a computer model 5 or 7 days out we will put it in there based on the theory before the models even know. 

But, to answer your observation concerning vagueness, we will get more specific on the next few forecasts to show you that it is not just any storm system.

Gary

February 8, 2008 1:25 PM
 

Scott said:

Oh..I am dying to take a shot at this one.  Pack a lunch, this will be a long entry.

First, lets look at your first period - Yes, there was a warm up from the 5-7th.  Based on a forecast date of Jan 2nd, how can I know you did not use model data for this?  Second. yes - there was a storm on the 7th.  Per KMCI, it recorded under a quarter inch.  Where did you pick the storm on the 10th that yielded nearly double the amount of precip as the 7th of about half an inch?  Of the prediction of the 8-9, which storm listed above did this reference?  You mention one...  

Also, where was the warm streak in between?  How do you define a warm streak?  Mean temp, high temps?  What range?  A day with temps one degree above normal could be called a warm day in a streak...I suppose.  Your 12-15th storm kinda verified.  You gave a three day range and missed by a day.  So, really, this equates to a five day window if you add a free day on the other side.

In essence, you gave yourself enough wiggle room to claim any storm that happened with that five days.  Yes sorta accurate.  Not precise.

Second- Um...the US went into a deep freeze?  Really?  Can you provide the mean temp anomoly to support this claim?  While parts of the US did cool down...did the ENTIRE US?  California?  Arizona? This part of the forecast was very vague.  Yes, accurate to depicting a cold stretch in the heart of winter, but where is the precision?  Where was it going to hit?  How much?  How long?

"US Temperatures
The average January temperature for the contiguous U.S. was 31.8°F (-0.1°C), or 0.9°F (0.5°C) above the 20th century average of 30.9°F based on preliminary data. In the central and eastern U.S., the pattern of spring-like temperatures that began late December, continued during the first two weeks of the year. For the month, 29 states were warmer than average east of the Mississippi River and in the northern High Plains. Alaska also was warmer than average at 0.9°F above the 1971-2000 mean. "

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/2007/jan/jan07.html

Third- The last part of your forecast was so vague, I could not give you a grade on this.  4-7 storms in 26 days?  No details to where, when, how, or anything.  How can you even get a grade for this?  

Not counting October 7th in the cycle?

Oct 8 - .43
Dec 1 - .40
Jan 29 - T

Why not?  If this is a carryover from last year, why is it producing precip in at a 54 day cycle this year?

Why can't the old cycle and the new cycle co-exist in Aug/Sept until the old phases out?  Why can't the new cycle start in Aug?  Why are there so many dates that match up from the surface trends that date back to then?


I commend you for sticking your neck out with a 45 day forecast on your theory.  No one else other than Doug Heady is doing that.  Great job for that.

You need to get more detailed in your forecasts to remove all doubt in this theory.  I believe in the cycle.  I see it work everyday, but for you to show everyone that is watching...I think you need more precision.

For your first stab - C+

Great work Gary...keep at it.   My own grading is coming due in two days.  I expect a similar grade, but..I did have more precision.  LOL

-----------------------

Scott,

The series of storms occurred were hit dead on by the LRC and you know it.  I remember you saying to me many times, "like clockwork", so just because it was a bit vague in my written language I think you should have given extra credit where it was deserved.

The bottom line, you want me to be more specific.  As we just experienced, we know it can be done, especially with this years LRC for our region.  Those four storm systems will be repeating in March.  It will be more specific in my next forecast.

Man, am I glad you aren't my professor! 

Gary

February 8, 2008 1:33 PM
 

slim said:

Gary and weather team-
First, great job explaining the LRC events. It goes along with what my wife says, "I like Gary, not just because he a dog lover, but because he can relate scientific type stuff to me that I understand." She also loves how you guys talk to kids during severe weather. She tells all her students to turn on Ch.. 41 if the weather is bad and your parents are not home. I think that is very important that your excitement doesnt turn into panic, like others do.
Secondly, I have been on here before with reports from Falcon Lakes Golf Course (I work there part-time). I was wondering if for this spring you could ad a golf report to Friday nights and Saturday nights newscast, blog or the main site. The reason is for a FROST FORCAST; we have guys that will wait hours for the frost to clear and waste alot of their day. Just a simple yes/no for frost the next morning, I think would be a great service and help to all the local players.
Thirdly, how informative are the NWS severe wether seminars. I would like to learn more about storms. I can read the radar, but having a little more knowledge will make me feel better about the safety of our golfers.
Have a great weekend!
SLIM

------------

SLIM,

The NWS severe weather spotter seminars are excellent. You should definitely go to one.

We have written it down to start a frost Golf forecast!  Maybe at 6 PM.

Gary

February 8, 2008 1:35 PM
 

Tony Baker said:

Outstanding write-up on the LRC. I realize focusing your efforts on the accuracy of the model is your chief concern. From my vantage however, the fact you make long range forecasts in the first place, and then stand by them and subject yourself / Ch 41 to public critique is the real story in my opinion. I wouldn’t worry too much about what your colleagues at the other stations may have to say. They can only compete with the NWS because you are in a league of your own. They are playing checkers – you are playing chess.

----------------

Wow!  I will send this to our promotions department!  You made our day!  We will keep working on bringing you the best weather information possible.

Gary

February 8, 2008 2:13 PM
 

chfs327 said:

Heres the Deal. This storm system coming in Monday and tuesday will be more of an Ice event then a snow or rain event. Tempatures should be about 29-33F during the storm in which the KC area will be hit with a Major icestorm. around Harrissionville and Leesummit down toward Paola and Gardener will be the Hardest Hit areas from this storm. Places in the North will just get all snow with about 7-10 inches of snow

Ice/Snow line will be about KCI through Liberty, Richmond and Kirksville line

Overall we will be having a Really Good icestorm. Around what ST.Joe had earlier this year. Model Runs show this from my weather station in my house so i expect about 1/2 to .75 of an inch of Ice

Kumke

------------

Kumke,

The only way we get anything out of the early week storm is if it digs a bit harder to our west.  It still may.

Gary

February 8, 2008 2:18 PM
 

jbtornado said:

You better be wrong about that ice!! I've had enough for 5 winters this winter alone!

---------------

We only predicted one ice storm in our winter forecast, so we can't have another one!

Gary

February 8, 2008 2:40 PM
 

Nick Rau said:

WOW, once again you show your brilliance, yes there MAY be some issues as to the "wiggle" room you may or may not have given your self-, BUT if the LRC did not exist there would be no way that your forecast could be so accurate that far out and I know that when you said 4 to 7 storm systems in that time period that you meant 4 to 7 WET ones that would either hit or affect that area, not just any disturbance that whizzes by.   The big thing though, is that precip. fall patterns to me that is just glaring.  If the LRC did not exist, then why did the south cut-off in precip. start when the LRC supposedly starts in 2006 and then last all through 2007 UNTIL  the LRC is supposed to die/shift/transform in that year and now this precip. fall pattern suddenly sets up at farther north (NEW LRC) and hang around, and why do vorts look similar all year from NOV. to the next AUG. or so and then different looking ones move in the next fall and they reshow them selfs for the same time period the next year, I'm not even trying to match dates up or anything I'm just looking at the 500 mbar vorts as time moves along and "see" the same shape and  look return all year until the new LRC and then new ones come, well that my 2 cents worth again, Thanks for your time!!!!!!!!!!

------------------

Nick,

It is amazing how you get it, and the others don't. This is a great point about the precipitation patterns repeating, the vorticity patterns being the same all season long, the tracks, etc.  It is so ridiculously obvious.  Great observations.

Gary

February 8, 2008 2:54 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

I hope the storm Monday and Tuesday becomes intense and produces a lot of snow...Is this possible??

-------------

It is possible,  Let's see how it trends over the weekend.  The last couple of storm systems didn't really look good on the models until two days out.

Gary

February 8, 2008 2:56 PM
 

Alden said:

Another great blog, as always!! Keep up the good work. Can't wait to here more about the LRC.
February 8, 2008 3:08 PM
 

John Sickels said:

Well....I don't want to wait next week for a detailed answer to this question, so give me a yes or no...:)....

Will or will this not be an active severe weather season?

-----------

We don't know yet!  Give us some time to analyze and come up with a thought out forecast.

Gary

February 8, 2008 3:14 PM
 

chfs327 said:

LezaKEF5 said
I hope the storm Monday and Tuesday becomes intense and produces a lot of snow...Is this possible?

Like I said In My above Post it will be a Major Ice Event that will dump about 1/2 inch of Ice or more. Ice/Snow line will be about KCI through Liberty, Richmond and Kirksville line where everyone above this line will see all snow with about 7 to 10 inches of snow
February 8, 2008 3:15 PM
 

chfs327 said:

John. It will be a active severe weather season. If the LRC continues to cycle then those winter storms will be the same as our Severe weather. The South will get alot of severe wtorms is year
February 8, 2008 3:17 PM
 

momof3 said:

Weather team- great job as always.  Gary- awesome blog entry!  Andrew- that name is beautiful and I am sure she is too!  
February 8, 2008 3:20 PM
 

mattmaisch said:

Hour 84 on the 18Z NAM will keep you coming back to see the next run...


Matt
February 8, 2008 3:27 PM
 

elevatorsout said:

I am in the same boat as Jacob (downtowncobb) above.  I have been reading Gary's blog for a few weeks, while spying on all the 5pm and 10pm weathercasts, and am a first-time commenter.  I think Gary must be giving huge bribes to the weather Gods because he seems to come out more accurate than the NWS and the other guys.  Thanks for having this blog.

I also like the blog because it is updated all day long.  Most internet weather pages, whether it be KSHBs page, or the other stations, or weather.com have delayed information and the forecasts stay stale from the morning until the evening.  Gary and the KSHB weather team keeps us up to date all day long.

And Gary - please please keep using different levels of terminology in your blog.  I don't mind if you get all technical for those who like that information, but please keep using the elementary terms to sum it up for those of us not dedicating our free-time to meteorology.

---Jason
February 8, 2008 3:27 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Kumke,
During this time of year, the severe weather is usually south of us.  It's really too early to tell if south is going to have an active severe weather season or not.  Yes, it's been a highly unusual year as far as the severity of the outbreaks.  It's not uncommon to have severe weather outbreaks on a limited basis during Jan. and Feb.  Our severe weather season does not typically start until spring.  Let's see what Gary has to say about the spring forecast.

I am not making any predictions about the Monday-Tuesday storm.  I am going to wait to see what happens.

Kristi
February 8, 2008 3:36 PM
 

GaryB said:

Scott had an excellent blog.  Gary, you need to do more updates like today more often.  You've given yourself at least a 4 day window  and  was impressed how you explained away mostly the entire month of Nov with no precip.  If the LRC was on a chalk board, it's easy to erase the the weather that don't fit and pat yourself on the back for those that do fit, within the 4 day window......
I'm not trying to slam you, but your forecast is actually typical of any winter in the last 30 years and with a 3-4 day window, it's pretty hard to get it wrong.  It's like a 5th grade thing.  

------------

Gary,

But it does fit, there is no explaining anything away.  It all makes sense to me!

Gary

February 8, 2008 3:46 PM
 

RickMckc said:

FWIW ... I've enjoyed reading the critical commentary today - and I mean "critical" in the most positive sense of the word: asking hard questions, debating hypotheses and claims, without slamming someone's character.

Good job people!

--------------

Great point!  This has been very healthy and we will all learn from this.

Gary

February 8, 2008 3:47 PM
 

RickMckc said:

Well, except for the "5th grade" comment. :-(
February 8, 2008 3:49 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Rick,
I too have enjoyed the critical comments today.  I like how they are more positively posted.  That's how it should be.

Kristi
February 8, 2008 4:01 PM
 

chfs327 said:

Im still thinking this storm will develope Rapidly and Prooduce a Big ice Storm
February 8, 2008 4:02 PM
 

PatsSoxCelts said:

Great job weather team. You issued an arctic air watch and it happened. You expected storm systems and they have happened. Im just hoping that the temperature on Monday-Tuesday are cold enough to have snow? Gary, do you think the month of March will be cold or warm?

---------------

We do believe the cold and stormy parts to the pattern will happen during March.  More on this soon.

Gary

February 8, 2008 4:05 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Thanks Everybody! Very Cute, I'll try to send a photo of me holding her.
February 8, 2008 4:29 PM
 

chfs327 said:

I am the great Cornholio.

We will have Icestorm
February 8, 2008 4:44 PM
 

Brent said:

I think you verified the LRC fairly well Gary
I also agree that you guys did not get the intensity and widespread part of the next cycle quite right....the arctic outbreak did happen, and I give you 100% full credit for predicting that when some of the forecasters in the region felt that the coldest part of the winter was over! we have had a series of storm systems like you mentioned in your long range forecast also....but like I said, they were not very widspread, because Harrisonville didn't get more than an inch of snow out of any of these systems, also, I do not believe they were stonger than some of the storms in December, at least not here.

but overall I grade your long range forecast a B+ maybe an A-

I can't make your forecast fit for Harrisonville because it was not forecasted for my house...it was for Kansas city, and you did a very good job with your 45 day forecast for the metro.

Brent

-------------

Brent,

You were hit by these storm systems.  Remember to count the rain!  I am still hopefull that one snowstorm will get you this season.  I know we are running out of time, but there is one more cycle before it is too late.

Gary

February 8, 2008 4:47 PM
 

Brent said:

" KC area will be hit with a Major icestorm. around Harrissionville and Leesummit down toward Paola and Gardener will be the Hardest Hit areas from this storm. Places in the North will just get all snow with about 7-10 inches of snow "

I like what you are saying, but I know where its coming from, a 15 year old who doesn't actually analyze maps and accurately interpret them, and is usually wrong on his forecasts of a widespread 5 to 8 inch snowfall every time a disturbance comes out way, I like your enthusiasm, but instead of making comments like ("we will have an ice storm") you may want to say that its a possibility, because although the prospect of an ice storm is exciting to me....especially since you picked out my town to be hardest hit, lol.....I do not believe that it will occur.

No hard feelings, ;)

Brent
February 8, 2008 4:55 PM
 

JPnKC said:

Gary,

Great blog today- I like the back and forth from Scott and Notes--I think they have some good points and you always have a great intelligent response.

I wish you could get a grant or have the folks in Washington appropriate funds for an in depth study of the LRC...if you think about it-- God knows they fund other ridiculous projects that have zero impact on the pubilc--(pork projects)---the LRC could widely be used by a number of entities- beside the general public--Agriculture comes to mind, as well as military operations, NASA and a number of other uses....look how accurate is has been compared to the models - when nothing is showing up in the models 14 days out or 5 days out , but you know + or - a day or so when the storms will be in the area.

I just think this has tons of merit and promise- and from what I have seen it is truly marketable...

Just my 2 cents.

Have a good weekend..

Congrats Andrew on your new sister!

JP Out--

--------------

Thanks JP! 

Gary

February 8, 2008 4:56 PM
 

Brent said:

50's 20's rain, ice....

the roller coaster begins.
February 8, 2008 4:57 PM
 

Hushpook said:

I have a retail store in the Northwest part of the metro. I live in the South Central part of the metro. Every snow this winter has been the same....at work, the snows have been fairly substantial, at home far less. Every night as I drive home, the snow gets less & less the further East & South that I drive.

Isn't that the very definition of a pattern? And isn't the LRC just a defined pattern of winter weather? Why is the concept so hard to understand?

What the LRC means to me is really simple....I can trust that the 7 day forecast from NBC Action Weather is going to be pretty accurate. In a town where some 'certified meteoroligists' can't pin down the weather 12 hours away, that is a very comforting thought.

-------------

Thanks, and you are correct.  The snowfall patterns that have repeated in almost every storm are not a coincidence.  It is one aspect of the LRC that gets down to the microscale level.  And, we saw it happen last year, and in other years.  It should be part of my presentation.

Gary

February 8, 2008 5:42 PM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

Gary,

You often say that El Nino or La Nina does not have a significant influence on seasonal patterns and the card you often play is "Well, if La Nina means more snowfall, how do you explain the years with La Nina during which snowfall was below average?".  You basically say if the correlation isn't at or close to 100%, it isn't significant.  

On the other hand, with your theory, you say things like you just posted:  "The snowfall patterns that have repeated in almost every storm are not a coincidence."  Then how do you explain the big snowstorm last week that missed us well to the southeast, even though most (present company included) forecasted it to hit the metro?

---------------------------

Notes,

That storm system, the last time through the cycle, also produced more precipitation south than north.  This time it just happened to go even farther south.  The other storms in the cycle have been very consistent.  I know this doesn't quite answer your question, it is hard to put into a short statement.  But, the bottom line is just look at this season, last year, and other years.  I think it was around 2002 or 2003 when Joplin, MO had around 50 inches of snow. We watched 4 1 foot snowstorms track just south of us that winter.  Again, no coincidence, just part of that years LRC.

La Nina and El Nino highly likely do have an influence.  I don't believe they have anything to do with where the "long term" long wave troughs and ridges set up, or have anything to do with the cycle.  This doesn't mean that they won't take whatever pattern exists that year and add a La Nina twist to it.

Gary

 

February 8, 2008 6:34 PM
 

CentralOP2 said:

Gary,
I was wondering if we are going to get any more decent snowfalls this month given the fact that the models don't have much in the way of cold air at all. If we do get snowfall the temperatures look more marginal. I see no arctic air for us as it will be angled at the Midwest and the Northeast for awhile.
February 8, 2008 6:43 PM
 

Scott said:

Notes - you have mail.

I updated my blog, so I am ready for my comeuppins too.  LOL
February 8, 2008 6:44 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Thank you! I'm emailing photos to my Grandparents right now, and to Gary!!

--------------

Andrew,

Congratulations again, from our weather team!

Gary

February 8, 2008 8:31 PM
 

johnmarr said:

bout time for a new blog update anything hello anyone home
February 8, 2008 9:48 PM
 

Brent said:

I was thinking the same?
February 8, 2008 9:49 PM
 

SmithvilleWest said:

I've been hoping you would write about how the LRC has matched up with recent weather events.  It's fascinating.  Thanks for the explanation.  One idea for the next long-range forecast: highlight any potential big freezes that may show up for April.  Those of us with garden and agricultural interests can always use all the data we can get.  

Regarding the "checkers/chess" thing (see Tony Baker's comment), I could picture a really cool promo for NBC Action Weather with you thoughtfully and dramatically moving chess pieces superimposed over weather maps, radar, and dramatic weather images while a voiceover extals the accuracy and dependability of the forecasts.  It could end with "...tune to NBC Action Weather because when it comes to weather, Lezak and the Action Weather Plus team are playing chess...everyone else is..." At this point a burst of wind or lightning scatters checkers and a checker board wildly across the screen, and a voiceover ends with "...playing checkers".

Have a good weekend Gary.
February 9, 2008 12:40 AM
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