NBC Action Communities

ok.

Hey Gary are these showers in Shawnee and Jefferson County KS caused by an outflow boundary or is this trying to backbuild NW?

clouds moving back in at 64th and I29, little bit of rain

Hail in Raytown now.....

Kelly

*******************

Thanks for the report Kelly!

Jeremy

We have hail and very heavy rain here in south Raytown.

Kristi

I haven't had anything in Liberty other than sprinkles.  Do you think we will get anything up here?  

I wish I has NBC action new, but still no other channel except 5.1.

Everything has calmed down, but the thunder has picked up again.

Grain Valley

******************

You can always watch our coverage that is streaming live online.

Jeremy

That video is posted at www.flickr.com/photos/momminatorkck.. for those interested.  I'll add some pictures when I get a chance..

Ditto Heavy rain! Sheesh!! Gonna be a long night.

Kelly

Here comes more rain in SE Olathe...

Storm Dog...you are famous!!!!

Right now I have 1.5" of rain at 80th and Grant. Earlier (around 6:30) I was out at the bowling alley at 435 and Midland Drive and saw some pretty good rotation in the clouds.

Scott L.

I've had 1.2" so far at 151st and Pflumm.  There were some VERY interesting clouds that went over just a little bit ago.  I've never seen clouds go straight up before!

I'm sorry...that total is 1.4"

I got some pcis of the pea-sized hail.  I could hear it hitting the side of the house.

Kristi

Getting drenched up here in the north country (Polo), but just thunderstorm stuff so far.  

Very heavy rain and some hail mixed in here in SW Lee's Summit. It's getting louder and the kids are a bit nervous.

finally raining here in raymore, lost power for a minute or two

Temps down to 68 now here by the stadiums with at least 1" in the rain gauge.  I'm thinking it's cooled off too much around here for tornados tonight (I hope, really want to get some sleep this evening).

Loud thunderstorm:)

0.0 here for the night, the month, the week and the last 20 days or so less than 3/4 of an inch.  Getting dry here, and yard will start crisping with more 90 degree days. :(

Not a drop of rain here at 6th and Iowa in Lawrence.

-Brian

Very havy rain in South Lee's Summit

It is really green outside. I only got a few hailstones! Looks like there will be a lot more rain for JoCo/Jackson/Wyandotte!

Pouring rain again in Olathe

pea size hail in LS....I opened my front door to check on the hail and lightning hit the street right in front of my house.... scared me to death!!!

1.47" in Shawnee k-7 & johnson drive.  After a heavy downpour it has come to almost a complete stop.

Great coverage tonight team!

Tim

Just a steady rain now here in fairway. I can't imagine how much the creek near my house is flooded right now.

1.75" of rain in Raytown so far. Dish is trying to come back.

Kelly

Have a question, I'm looking at the NWS regional radar and it looks like a big building, MCS coming up from western KS.  Is that going to get us in KC later tonight?

Anybody, do those storms south of witchita look to hit us in drexel, im am in need of some action.

1.1 inches rain South Leawood, 132nd and Roe, watching some fantastic lightning show out to east in Missouri that had moved through.

Jeremy and Gary,

We were at College Blvd and near KS HWY 7 around 45 mins ago.  We saw a huge wall cloud with strong rotation.  Did you have reports of rotation in that cell?  We heard of a possilbe "rope" tornado that was produced for a small period of time in this cell.  

Wow, that an evening.

Don

Hi Gary, Jeremy, and Brett!

What a fantastic job you are doing and continue to do.  Even while many of our bloggers were wondering why alarms were not sounding, you kept your cool.  So professional!

I have one question, though.  Many of the bloggers have said that the threat of tornadoes has decreased because of a variety of factors.  I live in JoCo, KS.  Do you think the threat has diminished for Kansas?  Even by a little bit?

I just want to reiterate how much we appreciate KSHB for providing the closed-captioning for the live weather reporting.

For anyone unfamiliar with closed-captioning - that's the typed words in the black box that you will see if you click the "CC" button on your remote. It's a verbatim account of what's being said by the broadcaster as it's being said. It's a godsend when the weather is like this.

Sirens back on in LS

The NWS is lucky that no tornadoes dropped from the storms & wall clouds earlier! I am glad that everyone has been saved from the really dangerous storms today, but the threat definately continues!

tornado sirens in LS again..

Interesting about the fire.  Up here near Liberty, we were wondering whether it was smoke or a cloud.

Crazy cool scene as the sun is trying to shine through the clouds and heavy rain.
YOu can see an orange ball shining thru.
Also, all of a sudden the sirens are going off AGAIN in SW Lee's Summit.

I have been away from computers and cameras all evening but it has been clear skies here in Topeka all evening so I was able to watch the explosive thunderstorm development right to our east and south that all of you KC folks have been enjoying. It still looks very impressive from here as we enjoy a lazy summer evening...Mike

not a thing in Tonganoxie.  Guess I will water again!  The towers to the south look great

I just saw a wall cloud in Gardner

Josh,
Many bloggers actually saw rotation whether on the live cam or with their own eyes.  I saw some rotation on the live cam that I was watching.  

Kristi

wow... crazy night.. too bad COMCAST has very poor server and let their service go out during a possible severe weather event in the KC area..  JEERS to comcast!!

why are the sirens going off in Lees Summit?

we are finally getting some rain here in Liberty with large heavy drops & small hail.

Just got up from the basement. Why are they setting the siren's off if we are not in a Tornado Warning?

Gary/Jeremy/Bett/Jeff: Great job tonight, guys! I am glad that you warned everyone about the wall clouds, because, as Jayhawk said, there is a chance that a tornado did touch down, and even though the NWS didn't issue a tornado warning, you definately kept everyone informed. The NWS was was not to scare people today when there really wasn't, as you all said on TV, strong rotation, except possibly for a short period of time, which is what Jayhawk may be reporting.

Once all of this calms down everyone should check out cnn.com because they have an awesome video from inside a bank in parkersburg, Iowa of the tornado coming straight into the building. check it out when you have a chance. really cool.

We have had pea size hail, very light. Some winds and heavy rains.  1.75 inches so far.  Be safe.

Wow, for anybody near hodge park by the triangle, look west. Really strange cloud....

This rain is pissing me off right now

Do the storms south of witchita look to maybe hit us in drexel???

All, thank you for letting us know that sirens were going off in L.S. We were not sure if we heard them or not as it is over a mile away from us. We are in the basement now. Thank God for laptops with large batteries and spare batteries! It has gone quite now, creepy. The radio did not go off this time either.

Turd- Where are you in Gardner?  I am at 135th I-35

Grain Valley,

Lots of rain, windy, lots of lightning, and yes I have tv back now.  Thank God

Rainfall totals on Weather Underground are nuts.  There is a path from about Baldwin to South Olathe that received zero precip.  North of there...2+" and south of there at least and inch.  Very interesting.

For those of you who are bashing Comcast. I heard that one of there offices got hit by a tornado and that is why no tv. I don't know if the tornado report is true or just something that is being passed around.

For once there is no rain or severe storms here in La Cygne. Just talked to my mom in Olathe and the creek near here home is almost out it's bank. I bet the folks that live in the houses that border the creek are getting very nervous.

Does it look like we will have rain/hail later on tonight south of KC? I'm sure we could all us a rest after this crazy weather week. I keep telling myself only a few more days to go until the dry weekend!

I dont know...

Im back in Olathe

Just switched to Topeka radar. Storms forming by Wichita. Will they head here?

Kelly

Hi all,
I live at 87th and Metcalf and saw the funnel, very evident updraft in my backyard.  Got lucky...
2.19 inches of rain so far

Keep up the great work weather team

Weatherfreak,
Our next door neighbor said that Comcast had a power outages at its office in Independence.  We have DISH Network.

Kristi

Roberto...

Yes NWS didn't cause uneeded concern.  They are not LUCKY they didn't call warnings...they are professionals.  The NWS did what they go to Meteorology school to do.  Give an educated decision on how the weather effects our community on a real time basis.

The WORSE thing that could occur is for the NWS to satisfy the wanted need for Tornado Warnings from those on this blog, while unnecesarily scaring the ones either by TV, Radio or Internet with warnings for tornadoes that aren't going to occur.

If it happens too many times the wolf and sheep scenario develops.  

How many times can you warn a group with Warnings before that same group becomes immune to it?

Hello,

From Las Cruces,NM, where it is hot,and windy. They are calling for 30-40mph winds tomorrow. The Flight was good!!

Is this line turning southeast? I just stepped outside of my house in Kingsville and it look's like it's heading this way. The wind is absolutely calm and very strange feel to the air.

Can't see any cloud formations in North Kansas City due to the explosion and fire. :(

Weatherfreak01....

We have had issues with Comcast cable, internet and phone since 1:00 this afternoon..way before the storms.

Looks very nasty out south, vivid lighting and errie, lots of sirnes going on.

simplykristi I know some one that works at the Comcast office in Independence and they have a backup genarator.

sorry need spell check,  sirens

All's I am going to say about the matter....  There was plenty of rotation earlier tonight.

Kristi

OK, wind went from dead calm to 30 mph winds or higher!

the lee's summit fire department came across the tv about 10 minutes ago saying there was a tornado reported in LS?

Noticing that the storms to the SW of the metro are taking a more Easterly direction than the previous NE direction.

2.2 inches so far 87th and Lackman area....yard is completely saturated/flooded

Great job guys- it was a little scary for a while..

That is what my neighbor said...  There was type of power outage.  I don't know if it was the Independence office but she thought it was.

Kristi

weatherfreak01, their service has been on and off all day.. very unacceptable. plus, that cnn video was AWESOME!

Just had dime-sized hail in Shoal Creek.  It's looking ugly outside again.

Quite a light show just to my south.

Kristi

It sure looked nasty out that way to the south, still very strong lightning. Calm and light rain in Waldo.

Lets See. First I watched the wall cloud go by my apartment complex, that was exciting. Then. Lightning kept striking our apartment knocking out power for like a sec. Then. I heard some weird noise outside, and it was baby raccoons who were soaking wet and lost from their mother so a brought them in and put them in the bath tub and dried them off. Then. It started hailing like a deluge of ice. Then. my dog was going crazy and wouldn't come in the house and I tried to grab her and I hit my head on a ladder that was ontop of an suv. Then. I let the raccoons go because we called every shelter and that was what they told us to do. EXCITING NIGHT. Then. More lightning and Heavy rain and the power went out for another couple secs. amazing.

Looking at the radar the wind I just experienced is from an outflow boundary-am I right?

Hey Jeremy, that was something that moved right over my house earlier but my bro thought is was a cumulas cloud! LOL!

Looks like you had a gust front that went thru, Braysmama.

Kristi

Thunder shaking house and light show west of ottawa, franklin county under flood warning, but where we sit only a few sprinkles so far (Thank God)

Ok WX report from Parkville, Mo., North of the river at 9 & 45 HWY...

Barely a trace all day long until now at approx. 2100 CDT.

Saw some interesting convective cloud formations from the north side of the storms and some TCU's around the KMCI area that we thought might break the cap.  Looks like some did and are taking their usual NE track.

I'm almost glad Dell sent me the wrong DC adapter for the laptop because all we would have probably ended up with is alot of hail on the new Wrangler and Grand Cherokee.  I hope Sean didn't get Hailed up to bad.

That's about it from me here.  Looks like with the position of the front it still might be warm enough for a few more rounds tonight?

Have a great night everyone, and special thanks to Brett and Skytracker for the great picies tonight.  Will watch at 10.

Jeff Nielsen
espotter PLA414

I have that cloud on video!!!!  (I think)

I figure it might be safe to come up from the basement. I would rather be paranoid than dead, that is why I we are down here.

hailing like crazy out here and doesnt seem to be ending very soon for us. the road next to our house is looking like a river and the rain gauge is filling up very fast

2.27 inches of rain right now in SE Olathe.

E of I-35, SE of the Great Mall....159th and Ridgeview area right now.

Looks like it is about to end

Gary I just emailed you some cool photos... in case you miss my email 1.25 inches of rain in SE lee's summit as of 9pm.... Thank goodness wireless rain gauges!

Still raining but as of 9:15, I have 1.5" at 151st and Pflumm.  

*NOTE*

I spoke with the Emergency Manager in Lee's Summit about why the tornado sirens have gone off this evening, and she told me that they sound them off when there is a severe thunderstorm that could produce a tornado even if there are no tornado warnings.  Just wanted to let the people in LS know why it happened.

Also, I think that once this last storm makes it through southern Jackson County and eastward, we will be out of the woods.  I think that the storms in southern Kansas will stay south of the metro area.

No hail in Liberty. Are these storms done with? We did get some loud lightning and a short period of heavy rain.

Jacob,
Thanks for checking on the sirens in LS.  I was really confused!

Gary,

I got 2.3" of rain so far here in NE Lee's Summit.  I will have final rainfall total before the 10:00 news.

Kristy-thanks, I couldn't remember what it was called. It was a gust front. It went from dead calm, to 30 or 40 mph winds, and now it's calmed down again. Just waiting for the rain, if it makes it here!

Interesting jacob, ty

Thanks, Jacob.

(That's what I told the grumbling teenagers who were sooooo inconvenienced by their two trips to the basement!)

Better safe than sorry.

Just like to know, why isn't 41 airing the plant fire live as Breaking News?

I have some great photos that I will try to get you Gary!  Taken from 159th and Mahaffie in Olathe.

.4 inches of rain in about 20 minutes along with dime-sized hail in Shoal Creek.  It's still pretty dark nearby so I'm expecting more.

Looks like that straight line storm out in Kansas is heading this way. Bringing back memories of May 1-2, hope it doesn't form into a bow echo or something.

Getting some pretty fierce lightning down here in Miami county.  A few rumbles of thunder.  Looks like it is turning south towards us here in Osawatomie again.

We finally got that tree cut down & moved from between the houses, hopefully we won't have anymore following it!   Our town's John Brown Park  has trees that looked like they were just knocked over at the ground level.  Not really uprooted but close.  That was from yesterday's storm.  Lot's of clean up going on down this way.

We must have had some very strong winds with that storm yesterday.  Would love to know if there is a way to find out just how strong they were.

I have the same question as many, what do the action team thing these cells down by Wichita will mean for us later?

As for the NWS and the lack of warning's... Well I will "stick to my guns" by saying there should have been at least 4 that I counted issued... But again, thats just my opinion.

Ok so is all of this staying south of the northland?

Great photo!

So far, it seems like it.

Thanks jacob for the ls info. i appreciate it very much!!!!  Kristy

Bones...

That group of cells in Wichita will work east and then SE and hit Chanute and Spfld area as it goes east.

Think of a wall moving E-SE from here down to the Ozarks during the night with the development here in the Metro.  The complex will create a boundary that will move that Mesoscale in S. Kansas to the SE and into the Ozarks.

Once we are done with this training front on the warm front we will be done till Thursday.

Bones...

That group of cells in Wichita will work east and then SE and hit Chanute and Spfld area as it goes east.

Think of a wall moving E-SE from here down to the Ozarks during the night with the development here in the Metro.  The complex will create a boundary that will move that Mesoscale in S. Kansas to the SE and into the Ozarks.

Once we are done with this training front on the warm front we will be done till Thursday.

Those of you in extreme southern Johnson and Miami Counties KS need to keep an eye on that storm.

Kristi

Nothing in the rain gauge  here tonight at 130th and State Avenue. Looks like everything has passed us just barely to the south tonight. I am seeing quite the lightning show to my south however! Hopefully we will get some rain here in western WYCO later on tonight.

Bryan

*Also, did I hear Gary mention tonight that his talks with the National Weather Service yields some concern for later this week?

mmancubfan: I agree that tornado warnings should not be issued unless the threat of tornadoes is high enough that a tornado could develop. When a wall cloud is spotted, and TV weather forecasters are reporting that there is a need for concern, that somewhat secure's a tornadic threat, I would think.  In most situations when a wall cloud is spotted, a tornado warning should be issued, and I feel that a tornado warning should have been issued. Personally, I did what Gary said, and that is to be concerned about the situation today in Johnson county with the wall cloud situation. Even if the rotation was weak, there WAS a wall cloud, and there WAS rotation. There may have been a brief spin up of a tornado in Jackson county, as is common with wall clouds, no matter the strength of the rotation. The NWS should NEVER be under-cautious, and should not be extremely overly-cautious, issuing tornado warnings oftenly, especially when they are not needed. As you said, the more warnings that are issued that end up with no tornado or damage, the less and less people will pay attention to them. And, earlier, I did state my concern and want for a tornado warning, not because I like tornadoes, but because it was apparent there was an imminent threat for at least a very weak tornado. Gary and his weather team did EXACTLY the right thing by staying on the air and warning people when the NWS didn't. Nobody wants the damage that tornado's and severe storms cause, and nobody wants the injuries that they cause, either. When storms like this are unwarned, the risks of damage to life and property goes up, because there is little or no time to prepare. It was extremely lucky today that only a weak rope tornado if any tornado developed, when such a potent storm entered the Johnson County and Jackson County areas. Along with Gary stating the need for concern, he did so without using any kind of panicky tone or scary voice. He explained the threat in an incredibly calm and expreienced voice and report. Congratulations Gary and weather team on today's coverage, and sorry for the long post, but I felt I needed to say a few things!
                Roberto

ANDREW!!!! I need to find out your color table that you are using on Stormlab. Do you have a place where I can find it???

Thunder and light rain coming down in Paola, guess we should be thankful that it's just a light rain for now.....I just hate rain.  Farmgirl, hoping that it all stays north of you, you have had enough!  Chase, I hope no more high winds for you all, and definitely no more hail, I'm afraid you can't avoid the rain that appears to be heading toward us.
--deb

I am confused by the coverage tonight??? What is a wall cloud? I thought if there were wall clouds that tornado warnings would be issued? What is a funnel cloud? I live South of 159th and saw that cloud that you have a picture of, didn't know it was a wall cloud. How can you tell? Will the threat continue overnight?

So is the tornado threat over for 129 and 72nd in the northland?  I dont want to head home if not since I have no basement.
Thanks
Becky

Roberto. I agree.

Since they showed wall coulds with rotation. And with numerous reports and live footage from spotter cams of wall clouds and lowering and going back up and lowering again ect.

They Should Have Issued the Tornado Warnings because clouds were lowering. Example: Over by Great Mall with the wall cloud with coverage from Sky tracker. I was there in a Vechical on top of the 435 Bridge and saw rotation on this wall cloud.

Even Though I think that with the false sirens thing where dopplar radar indicating it and a warning is issued. I think that If you see a wall cloud and it has some rotation and the lowering of the clouds. You have got to Post a Tornado warning. With Unwarned storms that causes peoples lifes and damage of property raises.

Just had to say stuff. Roberto You are a good man. And I agree with everything you said.

I want to go outside and see how much rain we got here in Lee's summit, but still raining w/lots of lightning.  o.k. call me a chicken.  Kristy

1.2 inches in the rain gauge so far in central LS (as of 9:40).... The lightning show was almost worth paying admission it was so incredible!!

Gary,

From my home here in rural McLouth I have a great view of the southwestern edge of the development area.  There appears to be a rapid decrease in deveopment currently being established.  The clouds continue to build, but they stop at a much lower altitude before they anvil out.

So, the word on the storms to the SW is the will turn SE later tonight? I missed what Gary just said...

I have 1.50 inches of rain in my gauge here in south Raytown.

Kristi

We had a good view of the wall clouds in Lee's Summit from Greenwood. 2.4 inches of rain as of 9:45 PM.

Well said Roberto, I would rather be in the basement- prepared.  Not running around grabbing my 3 kids (all under the age of 5) and taking my precautions too late...
That's why I have the blog, weather radio, and the internet ;-)

Ok Kristi-- Chicken!!- No-- your smart- what a night....

Weather Team,
Just went through a nice little Severe Warned cell here in Ottawa, KS.  I am emailing some pics of the hail (1.5") and of what I think is an incredible lightning strike out my front porch.

Later,
Mike in Ottawa

rain has not stopped in about an hour and a half. we have a water pond behind our house (it is never full just required to have in neighborhoods in raymore to keep water out of areas) anyway the thing is pretty deep and has been dry all the years I have lived here. tonight it is almost full. that is just crazy to me. looks like we are still in the red for a little while longer. wish i could watch the news have DISH and it has been our for a while. need to get a HD antenna soon.

2.20" in my rain gauge Gary.  Lots of thunder and ligthening around here still.  Had pea size hail earlier with torential rain falls that I could not see across the street.

Laura in Raytown

Good evening weather team...Great coverage on the storms this evening...

I am in Roeland Park (my gauge location is about 800 ft SSW from the centerline of I-35 and 18th St. Expwy...
We had a lot of quarter sized hail here this evening - I'll email a photo of one of the hailstones...My rain gauge has measured 2.57 inches (I had to relocate the gauge becuse it was being hit by hail)...I don't believe moving the gauge had any impact on the reading because the gutter at the end of our parking lot was overwhelmed and backed up into our parking lot to a depth of about 1 foot.

Is this reading consistent with what doppler has estimated and any other reports that you have received along the Wyandotte/Johnson County lines?  

Lance

I hope I'm wrong by saying this - but the NWS from what I understand does most of their warnings off of radar algorithms. Unfortunately, with this Douglas/Johnson/Jackson county tornadic thunderstorm, the best rotation indicated by velocity radar imagery was a -5 and +10 couplet. That is only 15 MPH worth of circulation total.

I hope I'm wrong on saying that the NWS completely ignores anything but confirmed tornado reports... but if they were going purely off of software interpretation, I can clearly see why no tornado warning was issued.

Man, that storm in miami county is going to go just barely to the north of me, unless it takes a slight south track

I rather think that the NWS did a great job tonight.  Utilizing the live footage, they were able to be more precise in the warning criteria.  

While interesting to watch the wall cloud, because of the movements of the complex coming together, and the sporadic inflow to the cell, what you saw is what you were going to get.

Poor folks in LS having the EAS interruption.  Not sure still why that was warranted beyond what the media and NWS had already warned.  

I think folks are a bit gunshy from earlier this year....

Team did a great job...

************************

Thanks Scott.  We were in direct contact with NWS and they were using our chopper to get a first hand view of the storm and then compare that with what was showing up on radar.  The wall clouds basically all acted the same and I think that is why they held off with tornado warnings.  The severe t-storm warnings always mentioned the tornado watch and threat.  The fire made things even more crazy.

Jeremy

Agree on that Scott!

I came back to check on the blog and look at the radar.
And what do I see?
A bowed out storm heading for me.

Scott and Wyco, think of the people in Kansas City North.  We had no warning and the tornadoes took out a lot of homes. That's why they did the warning.  I have to disagree with you guys. Plus, if a person doesn't have the correct TV or radio station, they're hosed.

I think that the tornado threat for our metro area is very low for the rest of tonight.  Most of the storms down in southern KS are moving east.  They don't seem to be moving directly to us.  Just my thoughts.

Well. Everyone who didnt have the sirens go off today will have them go off tomorrow Morning at 11:00AM

Then Our eyes Look toward Thursday. Gary was getting consurned about it

I suspect from many more storms going forward we are going to here alot of chatter about scud and wall clouds now...

LOL

Being up in the northland during the night time Squall line that produced F3 tornadoes which showed little to no couplet on the radar, I really think the NWS should have handled this much better.

If the storm is strong enough to produce a wall cloud, it's already dangerous enough to produce a tornado with less than 1 minute lead time. Tornado Warnings are meant to protect lives.

To me it seems like they were just waiting for it to touch down in the middle of rush hour right over I-435, and start killing people, before they said "oh, we need to worry about this one".

gust front just moved through sedalia. lots of lighting to our west

1.08 inches at 151st and Mur-Len in Olathe.

sending you guys some pics right now of the rotating supercell and possible tornado i saw north of carrollton.

Scott: While the NWS did a good job not issuing a tornado warning when there probably was no tornado, they got awfully close for comfort, which is why I think they should have issued a tornado warning. There was that unconfirmed report of a small tornado on the MO side in Jackson county, and numerous live reports and life footage of wall clouds. I think that people in Lees Summit were lucky to be warned of the approaching storm, becasue there was a wall cloud with some rotation that had meteoroligists concerned, and had a tornado touched down, they would have been safe. It's better to be safe than sorry. But as I stated before, not too safe because eventually people will ignore the warnings. In some ways they did a great job, in other ways maybe not so much. Either way, I believe that a tornado warning would have been a wise idea.

Roberto...

Very weak response,

You actually said:

" I agree that tornado warnings should not be issued unless the threat of tornadoes is high enough that a tornado could develop"

Um....... that is why there are Tornado WATCHES!!!  Watches and Warnings are two totally different things and should be treated that way at all times.

You call a Tornado Warning when a trained spotter has indicated a confirmed touch down of a tornado or a radar indicated tornado (hook echo) similiar to what we saw in Kearney, KS last week or to the poor souls in SW MO earlier this spring.

There NEVER was the tight rotation on doppler needed to create a tornado and that is why there never was a tornado warning issued.

I, as you do, commend Gary and Jeremy on warning us on the potential all the way back to Sunday on the potential of today's activity.  I also commend Gary on his coverage tonight and his quick move to acknowledge the lessening risk of damaging activity and the move to normal programming.  

My point was not at Gary or his team.  My point was to posters like you who PLEAD for warnings that need not be posted.

There was scud rotation in a line of storms.
There was history of rain-wrapped descension of clouds due to the updrafts and downdrafts of the line of storms.
There was no history of touch-downs in the Metro area and no history of damage or hook echo touch downs due to radar indicated tornadoes.

You tell me?  If you were a NWS employee, why would you scare thousands of people on a WARNING that had not been confirmed?

The people in Kearney, NE knew that a tornado was coming 15 minutes prior to it hitting because the spotters had confirmed it on the ground south of I-80 and the radar indicated a definite tight rotation.  

What spotter had confirmed a tornado on the ground in the KC metro?

That is why we have T-Storm WATCHES and Tornado WATCHES....To watch.......

f00dl3,
I agree that the rotation velocity was a little weak, but including the other factors in with it? Near maxed out VIL reading's 50K+ cloud tops???

Oh well, could debate this all night!! I am moving to the development in the SW around Wichita... Not sure what to think of it yet.

ok the chicken went out and the total here in Se Lee's Summit is 1.85in.  WOW!!!  Kristy

f00dl3, I could not disagree with you more.

While I know you are passionate about your feelings, this storm was completely different from the prior storm. This was in daylight hours, had a slew of media coverage, and much different dynamics.

To assert the NWS did not do their job is a bit crass.  

*******************

No tornadoes occurred and the debate could go either way...but Gary and myself really feel the correct thing was done tonight.  The thing that does get very confusing is on a local level...such as Lee's Summit sounding the sirens for a severe t-storm warning.  Or like the other day when Monica in Pleasanton mentioned that a severe t-storm was headed her way and yet the city still did the daily noon siren test.  There are always going to be issues with the weather...it is unpredictable to a point.  But I think tonight was handled well by the NWS and our forecast team.  This is one night I really would not have done too much differently. 

Jeremy

though I am sure you know it is still raining.  I'll update later.  Kristy

mmancubfan - dead on.

Gary,

My final rainfall total in NE Lee's Summit is 2.5".  Right now we are just getting some lightning and thunder.  No rain at this time.

Jacob

anyone notice the new stuff forming just west of Kc?  what's that from?

Rain has become much lighter in Greenwood. 2.70 inches of rain thus far.
Steve

I don't know anywhere near as much about weather as most of you but I do know that I have a 6 year old grand daughter that isn't going to sleep tonight because the sirens went off a second time tonight in LS after we assured her that everything was going to be okay(beacause of what we were seeing on TV and on radar...).  It scared her so much and yet, with me, it tends to make me too nonchalant about the sirens.  So, I have to agree with Scott.  Sirens and warnings should only be used when there is a conclusive indication that a tornado exists, and WATCH and stay alert whenever a watch is in effect.
Mary

Honestly, if the media spots the wall cloud hanging about 500 feet from the ground, how much lead time can they provide if a tornado starts developing from that wall cloud? 1 minute? 2 minutes?

stormwyndd, I was just wondering the same?!

StormWyndd, Does look like some thunderstorms are beginning to fire from Topeka to Saint Marys west of KC.

I have to agree kcwxguy.  The NWS should have issued a tornado warning for several counties through the evening.  If you can see a wall cloud and you notice that there is some rotation, then a tornado warning should be issued.  They issue one when the radar says there is a chance of a tornado, but when they see it for them selves they don't.  I must say that they did a rather poor job on this severe weather event.

i just sent the pics to you guys at the weather email

development going up in Leavenworth KS as well.

mmancubfan: I did not mean to make a weak reponse. Let me try to make it a bit clearer to you what I was trying to say. I was saying that the NWS did barely squeak by without issuing a tornado warning, and therefore, I feel that they were, as I say again, lucky that no tornadoes dropped when they should have but didn't issue a tornado warning. I believe I am right when I say that tornado warnings are usually issued when a wall cloud or something of greater magnitude has been spotted, or that strong rotation has been indicated on doppler radar. Today, a wall cloud was spotted with some rotation, and it was spotted by trained storm spotter. (i.e. Shawn Wilson, Brett Anthony), and even though not much rotation was indicated, there was some, and funnels wiere spotted. By my previous reponse to Scott, I feel that I misspoke by saying that they did a good job not issuing tornado warnings. I honestly meant that I felt that they were incredibly lucky that no tornadoes dropped, and were accurate in that measure, and only that measure. But in no way do I feel that their actions were CORRECT, as I still think a tornado warning should have ben issued. The NWS does their job, but today, they they didn't do it quite as well as they normally do. Even though there wasn't a tornado, there coulod have been one at any time. And, I agree with f00dl3 that the NWS was waiting for a tornado to touch down, but not that they were in any way waiting or wanting it to "touch down in the middle of rush hour right over I-435, and start killing people", as they would NEVER want that. WE are all entitled to our own opinions, and I understand everyone's viewpoint, but I have not strayed from my original stance that the NWS made a mistake and that they SHOULD have issued a tornado warning. We all need to acept and embrace and learn from each other's views, and while we are entitled to disagree, this point has now become moot, as we have discussed it and come to no conclusion.

Foodl3,

Those funnels seen are indicative of the same funnels seen in Lenexa, OP and Leawood.  The ones that didn't develop.....

To look at the history of a storm is very indicative of the what will happen in the future.

Think of this.....The worst person you can be is that person who watches the funnel develop west of them......get bigger from a snake funnel to a full blown 200 yard wide tornado in a matter of minutes and slowly swirl toward them in the first few minutes of development.

If that is you...God have mercy on you.  You will never have warning and never will.  It is nature.

Other than that, you will always have warning if you are paying attention.....

P.S. mmcubfan: I would never PLEAD for an uneccessary warning.

pea size hail in sedalia with massive rain coming down

I was outside with the dogs just now and it feels like its either starting to warm up a little, or getting muggyier (if that's a word) again.  

Kristy, odd wasn't that?  whatever was popping up on the radar (and I just saw it on Gary's ESP loop too) is gone... whew.   Hoping for a quiet night from now on.

One last thing before I head off to bed :-)

Radar is a tool for monitoring storms once they are already formed. A rotation couplet can develop rapidly. Tornadoes can form with no rotation couplet. I've seen numerous occasions right when supercells are developing in a Moderate to High risk environment where (be it very weak) tornadoes are reported right from the get-go of the thunderstorm's development - before the storms are even producing more than a few sprinkles - and have 0 rotation signature. Weather can change in an instant. Tornadoes can go from F5s to lifting in less than 30 seconds. Tornadoes can go from nothing to F5s in less than 30 seconds. Rotation couplets can intensify very rapidly and go away within one radar scan cycle. Even well developed and long lived rotation couplets can fail to produce a tornado (especially in elevated storms).

Radar is a great tool - but nothing can substitute the human eye.

continuing to rain in Olathe. Im consurned because at the end of my street there is a lake and 2 streets down there is a lake.

Thursday night

Ahh....the media has swayed some opinions of the skills of the NWS.  Unfortunate.

Let me make a quick reference...

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/climo/reports/today.html

Notice, not one report in this area of any SPOTTER or MEDIA or NWS reports of a tornado or otherwise.  Short of a few wind or hail reports, this was a pretty generic line of thunderstorms.

So much as everyone counts the SPC for tornado specifics and so much as this is the defacto location for storm reports, not one mention.

The SPC and NWS discussions discounted the low level sheer in this area and it is not a surprise that the storms really didn't show organization regarding low level development.

It was a wall cloud, yes.  But short of a long discussion on the actual dynamics of the storm and how the structure was evolving/de-evolving, to assume that the media or unconfirmed reports of anything more eminent - I cannot agree that a warning was needed.

That said, the media did a great job covering it...and likely because of this - it prevented unneeded warnings or panic for those without other knowledge of the event.

I have presented my thoughts...I won't belabor the point any further....

(Oh - and I know quite a few people who don't know anything about weather and could care less about it - don't even have a weather radio - and rely totally on tornado sirens).

stormwyndd, that was strange.  I just wnt the rain to shut down.  we got alot in a short time.  

Roberto point taken.....your opinion.  

I am damn glad you don't work for the NWS.  I would be hearing sirens in Olathe every other week!!!!!

NWS did a fantastic job in not issuing a tornado warning for anything but the radar indicated tornado up by Chillicothe tonight and the brief siren in Lee's Summit??? Question on that is for later debate????

I applaud the KC NWS and the NBC TV crew in not over-amplifying the Tornado threat for what it was...................A THREAT....

The scud and rotation were incredible but with the training of storms down in Ottawa up through the Metro I knew it would pull that energy out of the initial formation of cells.

Tornadoes almost ALWAYS form in the front of a training group of storms in this situation.

There probably will be some tornadic cells in MO and IL tonight.  Just not here.

Now go Cubs!!!  Beat the fathers tonight in San Diego for 9 straight!!!!

Foodl3

You said:  "(Oh - and I know quite a few people who don't know anything about weather and could care less about it - don't even have a weather radio - and rely totally on tornado sirens).

Oh brother...that is why it is so important not to scare them uneedlessly......

Ever read the story Chicken Little?  

Eventually those sirens come onto deaf ears.  Then a real tornado hits.  And....they are Chicken Little.

New development in Douglas County.  The storms keeping training. :(

Kristi

I think its fair to say, that when the NWS does issue a tornado warning, I hope people take it more seriously since it will be clear there is reason to respond.

I will say one last thing about this topic. I would NEVER issue a warning uneccesarily. That would be completely wrong and immoral. I would, however, pay attention to reports of funnels and wall clouds from trained spotters, and issue warnings based on reports and doppler radar. And, Scott, there weren't any tornado reports, but numerous reports of funnels and wall clouds. I would hope that you would agree that when a funnel is spotted there should be a tornado warning. Russ Ptacek reported on the 10PM KSHB broadcast that he had seen a funnel. He even showed video of it. Again, I think that we should all accept, embrace, and learn from each other's opinions.

KCWXGUY...

There are people in Moscow Indiana right now who agree with you....

PRELIMINARY LOCAL STORM REPORT
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE INDIANAPOLIS IN
1023 PM EDT TUE JUN 03 2008

.TIME... ...EVENT... ...CITY LOCATION... ...LAT.LON

.DATE... ....MAG.... ..COUNTY LOCATION..ST.. ...SOURCE.

..REMARKS..

1022 PM TORNADO 10 SW RUSHVILLE 39.51N 85.58W
06/03/2008 RUSH IN LAW ENFORCEMENT

SEVERAL HOMES HEAVILY DAMAGED OR DESTROYED AROUND THE
TOWN OF MOSCOW. POLICE REPORT UNKNOWN NUMBER OF INJURIES
AND NUMEROUS PEOPLE MISSING.

Gary, you guys did a fantastic job tonight.  With Brett in the air, and Jeremy keeping tabs on the blog, as scarey as it got, you guys has us covered.  And amazing you even caught the beginning of the fire on tape with the time lapse!
Thank you!
Renee
Rain gauge has 1.30" of rain here by the stadiums off Blue Ridge.

Hailing in Olathe...tons of rain as well

VERY HEAVY RAIN IN OLATHE. NEAR WHITE OUT CONDITIONS.

My Metal Gazebo has been bent and over a half inch in the past 8-12 minutes in olathe.

Hail, and rain and some wind did this

wow metro area had a busy evening not me I enjoyed a tranquil evening in leavenworth no rain here just a nice lightning show to the south,thanks for the great coverage Gary!!!!

2.67 Inches in SE Olathe right now....

tornado warning just to the west of us. Oh boy!

What do you mean by training front/storms?

Bow Echo or a Derecho may be developing down in SE Kansas right now in the Columbus, Independence, Parsons area.

That line looks nasty for straight line winds..........

Look out Neosho, Pittsburg, Springfield, MO area later!!!

Are we expecting storms to redevelop overnight? If so, are they expect to effect the metro area?

Thanks

Those storms in Crawford and Cherokee Counties are moving very quickly.... 68 MPH!

Kristi

Training - Storms are forming and then going over the same places as previous storms.

Kristi

My goodness it's nasty out there right now.  Can hardly see across the street!  The thunder and lightning just won't stop!  

ok. just had very windy conditions in south olathe- pea to marble sized hail very heavy rain- it was around 11:00- the power went off for a little bit- it was hailing hard enough against the west side of the house to get my daughter out of bed...    

Wow, what a lightning show!!  It concerns me though about the fact of how bad the storm is that is making the lightning.  I had no internet for a while couldnt get connected at my sis' house.  I was thankful they stayed to the south but pray that everyone is ok where the storms hit.
Becky

Still going at it and at it here in Belton.  I just wish this would be over and this day would end, I really hope we have no more severe coming.  We spent all night at my mother in laws in the basement with no power and finally gave up and came back home.

My husband took a very neat video of rotating clouds over the house earlier this evening, but of course he is cursing in it *sigh*....does this mean I can't share it with you all?  I don't want to violate any of the rules.  
Lorie are you still in the path?  Stay safe!

derecho?  What's that one?

NWS in Springfield has already issued severe t-storm warnings for those storms for Vernon, Barton, Jasper, and Newton Counties.

Lorie,
Be prepared for straight line winds.

Kristi

Is it possible that it is actually raining harder now in Olathe?

Everyone in JOCO...we have T-storms that continue to develop west right now and are continuing to train east...

Watch out for flooding from Eudora-Lawrence all the way through the S. Metro tonight.

I have almost 3 inches now in SE Olathe....

Lorie,
You could have winds up to 80 MPH.  Stay safe!

Kristi

kristi do you see any trend of this moving north toward leavenworth the last couple of frames does show a slight north jog.

Yes, LRC, I do see a little more north east movement.

Kristi

This is Just Getting Ridiclous.  How in the world can it rain harder.

Continuous White out conditions in Olathe.

If this doesnt stop soon I think we will have as much as 5 1/2 to 6 inches of rain.

In the Past 20-25 minutes. Over .7 of rain has fallen in Olathe. Puts me up to 2.98 For this storm. And It looks like It wont stop.

mmancubfan...where are you in Olathe?  

I agree with you Turd Fergenson.  Just when I think it can't get any worse, it does!

Barbara. Im at the Old 56 highway exit in those houses just outside Frisco Lake.

First rumble of thunder just now in Lawrence. (10:19p)

-Brian

I'm at 3" at 151st and Pflumm

Thanks Kristi I thought I was seeing things I just dont want to miss out here in leavenworth I would like some thunder to sleep to tonight.

Where did all of those concerned about the weather warnings go?

Flooding kills many more people than tornadoes per year but now where are the comments on flood warnings right now or lack there-of??????

Flooding is going to be significant in this complex if it keeps developing West and moving over the same areas.

I don't think it get to Leavenworth but it may get to that fire in KCK.

Common you people where is the Flood warning concern here?

Barbara,

Just west of you.

159 and Ridgeview...

Okay...you're not too far from me, Turd (I've been wanting to say something like that!  LOL!)

I have been watching the radar over at WeatherUndergroubd,.  The line is shifting n and e a little.  I am not sure how far it will *** N and E but I am seeing the shift.

Chieffan,
The biggest threat is heavy rain....  Maybe a little hail and wind...  Nothing severe.

I am glad my friends came home tonight from the lake.  They called me about 10 and asked me what the weather was like between KC and Clinton.

Kristi

I honestly don't understand all this siren/no siren debate.  Why wait?  If conditions are scarey and you're uncomfortable, just move to a safe place.  Doing nothing until you hear a siren is just silly.  

Sounded like lightning hit close to me just now

I am always concerned about any threatening weather not just for myself but others.  

Kristi

Seems like the Olathe crowd is fairly close together!  That's cool.

OOPS  meant to shift...  OOPS  LMBO

Kristi

I misspoke just then.  11:19 was our first rumble of thunder not 10:19.

-Brian

Thanks Simplykristi.

As of 11:20 P.M I have 2.76 inches in the rain guage and more coming I'm at 159th and Ridgeview in Olathe.  Lightening strike in backyard set off my fire alarms.  That was close. :)

Storms lined up from Shawnee County KS thru the metro and points east.

Kristi

new blog

And just like that, the rain shut off

Barb and Turd...

We actually have more coming....

It is developing in pockets SW of us...

Geez my gauge just went out at 3.04 inches.

Radar indicated at about 3.2 now for me at 159 and Ridgeview.

And as I am typing here comes some more.

Who has the Arch built?

Thanks Kristi,  

Funny you mention Ark mmancubfan, I was joking with my wife who is out in maryland that me and the dog were building the ark to live in...LOL!  I'm in South Hampton nearby you.

Up to 2.52'' for 151st and Mur-Len in SE Olathe.

Tin Pusher...

You like that last blast?

We are getting hail again now at 159 and Ridgeview!!!

Tin Pusher...

Right across the street on Ridgeview from you....

yeah, I've had two in the last 3 minutes, they are loud!!  Yep Hail here also.  Crazy, havn't seen rain like this in a long time

Palisade park?

156th and Mur-Len....pea size hail and unbelievable rain!!

SW JOCO people....

It has completely filled in now on the radar.  A little break for a few minutes and then...

Expect alot more rain for at least another half hour or so.

Get ready for bad flooding.. Seriously this reminds me of that storm that hit KC when the Chiefs were playing that caused Brush Creek to raise out of its banks.

Take heed if you live on a stream or river!!!!

Tin...Yep...

Get ready Barb, Tin and Turd (funny just typing that)

Here it comes!!!!

we've been in a tornado warning but no siren. hmmmmm?

I've zoomed in on wunderground and I think it's been just to the north of us. My sister lives on the north side of town and we live like 6 blocks from Newton CO (sw corner or Joplin)

This video was taken from my front porch on 159th and Switzer in Overland Park, KS.  I was facing east towards leawood (I-435 and state line area) when I saw this funnel drop from the wall cloud directly above us.

No sirens went off.

http://www.houseofcrabs.com/podcasts/7/kansas_2008_wallcloud_ipod_480p.mp4