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A storm & cold front...November 5, 2008

Good morning bloggers,

We have a new president!  We have a new weather pattern.  The LRC is revealing much more of its identity as another storm system approaches the region.  This is a very complex & energetic weather pattern that will be cycling from now through the winter, spring, and into the summer.  Our analysis of this developing weather pattern continues as there is a lot more work to do.  The NBC Action News Winter Forecast will be issued on November 24th. 

A storm is approaching the plains today and there is a slight risk of severe thunderstorms tonight.  The model trends have been for a slowing down of the eastward progression of this storm today and tonight.  It now appears there is really no chance of any severe weather during the day, and just a slight risk of severe thunderstorms tonight with wind as the main threat later tonight.  We are not in the right spot for any lifting to ignite thunderstorms until the jet stream rounds the base of the upper level trough tonight.  The jet stream dynamics will be dramatically increasing over south central Kansas by 6 to 8 PM, but the sun will have already set by this time.  This is a very energetic storm system and we have to watch it very closely tonight as this energy in the form of powerful winds aloft will have the potential to create a few severe thunderstorms.  Look below at the jet stream forecast for midnight tonight:

When looking at the jet stream remember that when it is approaching your area at 30,000 feet up you should look for the left front and right rear quadrants.  These areas are the most likely spots to get the enhanced lifting in a storm system.  The left front quadrant of the jet stream develops over us after sunset tonight and really at around midnight is when we are going into this enhanced lifting region as you can see above.  I circled the left front quadrant of the developing jet stream as it rounds the base of the closing off upper low.  Notice the darker shade of blue.  This is the core of the jet stream.  The left front quadrant would be along and to the left of the nose of this jet stream which is why I circled the area in red just to the north and northwest of this area.  Can you see it? This likely means that the thunderstorms may not get their act together until a few hours after sunset tonight.  The GFS shows the bullseye of heaviest rain forecast near Trenton which is directly related to the left front quadrant of the jet stream as you can see below in the 1.5 inch bullseye. 

After this storm goes by we will be south of the developing and slowly moving upper low.  Bands of clouds will move in around the storm and it will turn colder.  But, there will be almost no chance of our first snowflakes from this storm.  There has been some talk of a chance of snow next week.  And, I do see this potential for the early week storm system that the models do not have a good handle on yet.  We will talk a lot more about this next storm on Thursday.  You still have time to enter the snowflake contest with the deadline for entries coming on Saturday.

We will have a major blog update and new entry sometime this evening, either between the 5 and 6 PM newscasts or possibly around 8 PM tonight at the latest.  Thank you so much for reading and participating on the NBC Action Weather blog each day.  My favorite season is approaching....WINTER!

Gary

Published Wednesday, November 05, 2008 5:33 AM by glezak

Comments

 

spotter said:

good morning gary well at 4am in st joseph few clouds around lots of stars out at 4.15 lighting thunder few sprinkles is this the weather for today. till the main show tonight cant wait to see what the new lrc has in store for us.have a great day!!!

-----------------

We have another two weeks to really figure out the LRC before the winter forecast is ready to go.  So, let's be patient.

Gary

November 5, 2008 5:45 AM
 

weatherwyco said:

Good Morning Gary,

Only dropped down to 61° here at 130th and State Avenue. Winds are howling this morning from the south, and dewpoints have continued to climb overnight. Now sitting at 49°. What an exciting weather pattern it appears we have on our hands. Can you imagine TWO great LRC years? Looks like it has a lot of potential. Have a great day!

Bryan

----------------

Bryan,

Last year wasn't a great LRC winter for places like Lee's Summit or just south of Kansas City that missed out on most of the snow.  So, perhaps this one will even be more exciting.  Last year did NOT lack on excitement, that is for sure.

Gary

November 5, 2008 6:13 AM
 

kane1970 said:

Looks like a great storm to sleep through. We also need the rain. Can you explain how that is the left front? Looks like it is the right. I have never looked at this stuff before. Thanks.

---------------

I will add it into the blog!

Gary

November 5, 2008 6:52 AM
 

cindylouwho said:

SPC has now issued a 10% hatched area to our SW.  Looks like things could get exciting later today in SouthCentral/Eastern Kansas .

---------------

Probably not until after sunset.  One of the limiting factors at this time of the year is surface heating with the shorter days.  And, this is a factor today.  The best lift will be well after dark and not until after sunset over south central Kansas.  This is how I see it right now.  But, you are correct.  The SPC has a 10% hatched area near the Oklahoma border and we will monitor this closely.

Gary

November 5, 2008 7:28 AM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Rain already developing!

---------------

Andrew,

These are just high based showers, with maybe an isolated thunderstorm and this band is rapidly moving through with a forward speed of around 50 mph.

Gary

November 5, 2008 7:40 AM
 

davidmcg said:

You and winter Gary, I tell ya, that is strange.  Late spring/early summer thats where the excitement is.

--------------

Well, then you should be excited today.  It is like a late spring type of day with the severe weather potential.

Gary

November 5, 2008 7:54 AM
 

jacob said:

A MODERATE RISK OF SEVERE WEATHER WILL BE ISSUED FOR AREAS SOUTHEAST OF THE KANSAS CITY METRO AREA.  HERE IS THE LINK TO SEE THE UPDATE FROM THE SPC.

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md2347.html
November 5, 2008 9:13 AM
 

bewild79 said:

so it looks like the exciting weather is going to stay away from here....
November 5, 2008 9:28 AM
 

pvt_murphy said:

no surprise there...its been looking to go south of us all along.
November 5, 2008 9:47 AM
 

bewild79 said:

I was ready for some good thunderstorms in my new house! =(
November 5, 2008 9:57 AM
 

nastyweather said:

So should we believe the 1"+ rain for our area based on the latest GFS and NAM models?
November 5, 2008 10:01 AM
 

MCIRamp said:

I'm still putting my car in the garage when I get home this afternoon.  I've seen too many "marginal set-ups."  Plus I just washed it, LOL...

November 5, 2008 10:05 AM
 

whirlygirl said:

I knew there wouldn't be anything really severe here. We missed the punch again. Now I gotta sit back and let all the snow lovers have their way for the next few months while I pout. I dislike cold weather and I really really dislike snow except for on postcards of mountains. Just don't understand cold weather persons LOL
November 5, 2008 10:56 AM
 

reafamily said:

Part of my joy in the winter season is seeing the snow on the ground and smelling the crisp cold air - without worrying about allergies :) My arthritis is also better in the winter as the humidity is what sets mine off.
November 5, 2008 11:02 AM
 

bewild79 said:

is this definately going to stay off to the southwest or is there still a chance that it could move this way?
November 5, 2008 11:44 AM
 

jacob said:

There is still a desent chance of severe weather here in Kansas City.  We have a chance of an isolated tornado, but our main threat will be hail and wind.
November 5, 2008 12:27 PM
 

kcwxguy said:

pvt - the wind dynamics are very, very good for this area... But- with the cloud cover today, we never had a shot at discrete mode due to lack of instability/surface heating.

There seems to be a bit of pooling in SE KS that is likely what the SPC is looking at.

With how the 500mb flows with the little maxima entering in near N.Ok/S. KS, the 300mb jet streak, and a possible weak surface low forming on that 500 vort, areas just south of us have the best shot.  

BUT...if that little surface low does form as progged just SW of us, and follows up the jetstreak, then we could have some great dynamics...just would lack surface heating or CAPE to initialize it...but would be able to sustain it if something was already formed and did come up.

That little surface low may come right over head.  Who knows... Is this the end of the world?  No...and likely just some thunderstorms near by...but things are SO close to being right...just a bit too late in the year.  Even in early October, this would have popped.

November 5, 2008 12:38 PM
 

MikeTrainor1 said:

i'm with ya whirlygirl... i like a little winter tho'. to me nothing smells better than crisp winter day (sun out of course) and the smell of BBQ wafting through the air. then comes the snow, the ice, the slush, the biting winds, the bad driving conditions, and on and on until spring.... :-/

meanwhile, i think the snow lovers are going to love gary's long-ranger. you just gotta know it's going to an active pattern. - mike
November 5, 2008 12:52 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

I think KcWxguy  is closer to it than Jacob. There are too many IF's and BUT's to really even worry about tornadoes. I don't understand the thing about the car but other than that it sounds like between the NWS and KcWx everything is south of us except some thunderstorms.
November 5, 2008 1:03 PM
 

Randy KD0FFO said:

currently chasing in kansas. we are in wellington, kansas. go to severestudios.com and click on scotts chasecam and you will see my truck right now lol. we're waiting for things to start firing.
November 5, 2008 1:33 PM
 

sjkelley6 said:

We rode our bikes to school today! WOW! After dropping the kids off - while riding back my 2 year old son (riding in the bike seat) noticed the rainbow! We were at 103rd & Mission.  On closer inspection it was actually THREE rainbows - 2 half rainbows and one complete rainbow!  It was awesome! No camera or camera phone on hand - just have to take my word!!! You would have LOVED it Gary!
November 5, 2008 1:37 PM
 

bewild79 said:

WOW I guess it's gonna be bad over there.  Well I am glad it is not over here cuz my storm shelter won't be ready until next storm season I wouldn't have anywhere to go.  I wouldn't mind a good thunderstorm though! =)
November 5, 2008 1:40 PM
 

kcwxguy said:

Tough day to chase unless you are driving a rocket.  The storm relative motion is hummin today.

Wouldn't think much would fire for a bit still...
November 5, 2008 1:56 PM
 

kane1970 said:

Rain/Snow Friday and next Monday and Tuesday? Is that for real?
November 5, 2008 2:03 PM
 

jacob said:

Tornado Watch for south central Kansas and Oklahoma.

Scott,

Do you personally think we could be put under a watch or a MD anytime soon?  What do you think?

--------------------

Jacob,

There is no sign of any thunderstorm development, so we will have to wait and see what happens in Oklahoma and then track them our way.  As today's blog entry says we are waiting on the left front quadrant of the jetstream to rotate into the southern plains.  It hasn't happened yet.

Gary

November 5, 2008 2:23 PM
 

Stormdog said:

Stormdog here - haven't posted in a long while - been very depressed.  But the weather has been beautiful, and the last storm we had was a prize - 1.61" of rain!
This next system, while not cut off, is potent obviously - just looked at the SPC's latest parameters - over 300 helicities NE OK, SE KS, and even up here some helicity - 200-250 m2/s2 (meters per second squared if I recall correctly.)  More importently for me, who loves thunder, the lapse rate forecast puts us well in the 7.5C range - more than unstable enough for thunder.

Another note,  and this is my untrained but anecdotal experience - you don't need heating, or a lot of it in November, since dynamics are what drive the helicity - more lift, more spin (vorticity), and hence one can have strong tornadoes with low-topped storms and so on.  It also really depends on the contrast between surface temp and upper-air temp.  This is why the English coast sees more thunder in late fall/winter than summer - the sea temp is so warm, while aloft, it is so very cold.

PS:  60 F dewpoints are surging north into east-central Oklahoma as of the last RUC cycle - something to watch for later.

Later,
Dog
November 5, 2008 2:34 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

It's getting colder. I was up to 68 and dropped down to 65. That doesn't seem like ingredients for supercells.
November 5, 2008 2:37 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

Ohhh but I am hearing thunder!
November 5, 2008 2:44 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

nothing for us jacob, we werent really ever in the path of the severe storms...we were just covered in the outlooks so that spc could cover their arses if the storm shifted north.  

although, its beginning! storms are firing in salina and west of okc.  it will be interesting to see how they evolve.  

kane, it will be cold enough for snow on friday for I-70 and points north, moisture is limited though.  maybe some flurries around atchison, saint joe and points ene of there.

monday night and tuesday is looking interesting.  moisture is available, so it cold temps.  all of next week is looking cold and damp.  especially the end of next week.  
November 5, 2008 2:55 PM
 

radman22 said:

It is getting colder and thunder is rumbling to the west.   What a great storm to track!   From blizzards to the north and possible tornadoes to the south.

To top it off, Bill Snyder will become coach for the K-State wildcats again for 2 years while he grooms a replacement.     I thought I have seen everything!

Sorry to get off topic,  but I just wanted to upstage your breaking news on Prince :P
November 5, 2008 3:03 PM
 

jacob said:

MD has just been issued for parts of the metro area.

http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md2350.html
November 5, 2008 3:05 PM
 

jlswildcat said:

sjkelley6 - I saw the rainbow this morning on my drive into work (I get on 435 every morning from the Roe exit).  It was absolutely gorgeous with the sun shining on the trees and the dark skies behind it.  
November 5, 2008 3:07 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

Yeah but that MD is saying we could get lots of wind. Duh.. I bet we coulda gussed that. Now the sun is coming back out after a couple of drops of rain on my driveway.
November 5, 2008 3:15 PM
 

bewild79 said:

How far out does "the metro" go?
November 5, 2008 3:16 PM
 

daveg616 said:

Just drove up from Lyons, Kansas this afternoon and it was cloudy the whole way with intermitten showers. No sun for heating/instibilty.
Dave
November 5, 2008 3:18 PM
 

jacob said:

Ok, sorry...not really the "metro", what I should have said was "parts of the viewing area."
November 5, 2008 3:20 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

Yeah, FAR parts of the viewing area. Jacob, I kinda feel like you're pushing for something that isn't there.
November 5, 2008 3:22 PM
 

farmgirl said:

I'm officially freaking out. NWS has La Cynge area under 100% chance of severe weather and has increased the rain potential to 1-2"! I image that is going to come down at an intense rate.

Gary, can you provide an update on today's severe weather threat?
November 5, 2008 3:32 PM
 

jacob said:

whirlygirl...calm down.  The MD does include parts of the Topeka area, and I'm guessing that you don't know much about these.  The MD is for the area highlighted and areas surrounding it.  2 or 3 counties away from the MD can be put in a watch if the Storm Prediction Center issues one.  So yes, this does include our viewing area and some parts of the metro area.  
November 5, 2008 3:37 PM
 

juba said:

Some sprinkles and VERY windy, all the leaves fell off my tree today, barley any on sunday! This sound like a lot of heavy rain and thunderstorms for late tonight, I love it when this happens!
November 5, 2008 3:38 PM
 

cindylouwho said:

For those of us who like to "chase" storms from the comfort of our chairs go to KOCO in Oklahoma City and choose one of the 3 live chaser feeds.  OKC has had a couple of tornado vortex signatures since the top of the hour.  Maybe one of the chasers will catch one live!
November 5, 2008 3:40 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

jacob, no WW for us: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/products/md/md2349.html

farmgirl, you are on the periphery of 'potential' severe weather.  potential meaning windy and maybe some small hail.  hail doesnt look to be that great of a threat to me at this point...or to the spc.  they are being careful.  dont worry, it wont be that bad.  wind is and has been the biggest threat and i doubt we will see anything above tropical storm force.
November 5, 2008 3:41 PM
 

wthrworrywart said:

I too am quite concerned about today's severe weather potential. I am over by Whiteman AFB. I do not do well AT ALL with severe weather, the last time we had severe weather, we had a tornado warning in our county. I ended up falling down the stairs and tearing all the ligaments in my foot, plus my husband is deployed so I am home alone. :-( kinda freaking out too!!
Gary a severe weather update/potential of what may happen would be really great. thanks!
November 5, 2008 3:42 PM
 

jacob said:

farmgirl,

The NWS has almost every city around Kansas City in a range of 1-2" of rain and between a 90% and 100% chance of severe weather.  Something you need to understand is that on their forecast when it says 100% chance of severe weather, that does NOT mean there is a 100% of severe weather!  All that means is that there is a 100% chance of rain and thunderstorms, and some of them may turn severe.  Don't freak out, there is a chance of a few severe thunderstorms tonight, but it should NOT be an "outbreak" or anything.

Don't worry, you'll be fine!
November 5, 2008 3:44 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

Oooohhh lookie at the line of storms just west of Manhattan!  Tornado watches in southern Kansas!

http://www.nws.noaa.gov/alerts/ks.html


If you check out South Dakota they are expecting 1-2 feet of snow over the Black Hills.  If only.......
November 5, 2008 3:47 PM
 

dougbce said:

check out the wicked line to our west!  Seems like it's showing up earlier than expected??????
November 5, 2008 3:47 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

Why is everyone afraid of storms? They are so much fun!  
November 5, 2008 3:48 PM
 

jacob said:

I wish Gary would update the 7 day to see if he put some snow flakes in the forecast.  Knowing Gary, I doubt he will until we get close enough to know for sure.
November 5, 2008 3:49 PM
 

jacob said:

The storms are right on time.  The line is forming way out in east central Kansas.  It will take them several hours to get to us.  The forecast was and still is for them to arrive late tonight.
November 5, 2008 3:54 PM
 

jameskessler said:

November 5, 2008 3:57 PM
 

jameskessler said:

November 5, 2008 3:58 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

AREAS AFFECTED...E-CNTRL AND SERN NEB / SWRN IA / NERN KS
UNIDIRECTIONAL
  SHEAR MAY FOSTER A FEW INTENSE LINE SEGMENTS CAPABLE OF HAIL AND
  LOCALLY STRONG WIND GUSTS LATER THIS AFTERNOON INTO EVENING.

I actually do know something about MD's and I read the whole MD 2350. It does not sound like anything horrid, such as tornadoes, is about to bear down on us. Just some wind.
November 5, 2008 3:59 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

I never get fired up over a "chance" of anything. There's a "chance" I could win a million bucks but the likelyhood is very low.
November 5, 2008 4:03 PM
 

farmgirl said:

KansasPat, I have spent over $10,000 out of pocket on severe storm damage from 1 storm this year (June 2). That is what the insurance didn't cover - total over $25,000.

Two years ago I was hit with a F0 tornado - that was another $45,000+ dollars insurance paid out. I can't afford another claim, let alone more storm damage.

I am on the prairie with no neighbors houses to block any winds. I have barns, out buildings and livestock too. So, my fear is for the livestock and their shelters.... and then my home.

So I think my fears are well warranted. There has been way too many severe outbreaks that includes straightline winds/microburst/tornados this year.
November 5, 2008 4:03 PM
 

jameskessler said:

'scuse me......guess you voted for McCain yesterday.
November 5, 2008 4:16 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

No I didn't vote for him yesterday and this is not a political blog. It says there's a chance of snow and I never put stock in a chance of anyone outside of here making forecasts (unless it's the NWS). If Gary says it will snow in hell next week then I will be concerned.
November 5, 2008 4:21 PM
 

chfs327 said:

James. We should keep Politics out of this. I voted for Mccain, But oh well.

I am Glad that there is a chance of some snow. I love winter so I am starting to get excited for that.

As for tonight, I have said that something wasnt right in the air. And that Continues,

It looks like the Squall line will drop some brief tornadoes somewhere. Pinpointing it looks alot harder than it is.
November 5, 2008 4:23 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

It's defiantely raining out there but where is my thunder? Where is my lightning? I'm getting gypped.
November 5, 2008 4:40 PM
 

jacob said:

I think the SPC has really over done this event.  It is not as bad as they made it out to be.  I think it is safe to say that our severe weather threat is very low for tonight.  We may have a few storms that may reach minimal severe strength but not expected to be anything major.  I think it is possible that a Severe Thunderstorm Watch MAY be issued for parts of the area (I would guess mainly on the Kansas side) but like I said, nothing big.
November 5, 2008 4:41 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

jameskessler said:
"
This should really get the board fired up:
http://www.accuweather.com/news-story.asp?partner=accuweather&traveler=0&article=8
November 5, 2008 3:58 PM"


That is the best thing I have seen all day! Bring it!


Also, Farmgirl...sorry to hear about your troubles.  That is never good when there is damage like that.
November 5, 2008 4:42 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

Seeing reports that anywhere from marble to WALNUT size hail is possible with that line of strong storms to the west of Kansas City out by Manhattan.
November 5, 2008 4:48 PM
 

whirlygirl said:

Heckbeck, I'd be happy with a thunderstorm. But all I'm gettng is rain.
November 5, 2008 4:50 PM
 

jameskessler said:

I know what this blog is about as I have been visiting it since the day it was created.  I was trying to point out that I thought whirlygirl's response to my post was a little to harsh considering it was only a link to a site that predicts a snow storm somewhere in our neck of the woods for next week.
Also, even though I love Gary as much as the next guy and truly think he is the best meteorologist in the area, I take ALL forecasts into consideration.  Some have more weight than others, but they will all factor in to my overall opinion of what will happen with the weather in upcoming days.
November 5, 2008 4:58 PM
 

bewild79 said:

new blog
November 5, 2008 5:05 PM
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