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Slow storm update....November 10, 2008

Good morning bloggers,

Rain is increasing across southern Kansas this morning.  Let's watch this area of rain as it increases and heads our way.  A slow moving upper level storm is forecast to be centered over northwestern Kansas by 6 AM Tuesday as you can see below:

The area of rain over southern Kansas this morning should increase and move in this afternoon or evening.  This is a situation where the surface low is near or just south of the upper level low for various reasons:  The upper low is not very strong and there is energy still flowing into the southwest and around the upper low causing surface pressure falls.  This will result in a prolonged cloudy period, and I am glad it isn't cold enough for snow.  It had looked like we may see some snowflakes from this storm, and in Nebraska they were concerned about a winter storm, but it appears that there just isn't enough cold air to produce snow with the exception of some of the higher terrain out over the western plains.  So, our forecast problems are more in deciding how much rain will fall.

It will be cloudy for the first three days of this work week. Then a strong cold front will approach the area and should wipe out this mess by Thursday night and Friday and possibly bring us our first snowflakes of the season.  There is still no sign on when the snowflake contest will come to an end.  We had over 5,000 entries online and more that were sent in through regular mail.  Thank you so much for participating.  Here are our entries:

  • Gary Lezak:  December 3, 5:44 PM
  • Brett Anthony:  January 7, 3:30 PM
  • Jeremy Nelson:  December 2, 4:40 PM
  • Jeff Penner:  December 3, 10:00 PM

    The upper level storm moving in today will likely track northwest of Kansas City into southern Nebraska on Tuesday.  Warmer air is being drawn into the storm and even in Nebraska it is looking like mostly a cold rain.  Disturbances will be rotating around this weak and slow moving storm bringing us periods of rain and drizzle.  There were a few sprinkles and showers earlier today, but the first main band of rain around this storm should arrive before the evening rush hour.

    There are signs of our first Arctic air mass of the season that may build over Canada in the next week to 10 days.  We will talk a bit more about this on our weathercasts today on NBC Action News.

    The LRC is likely set. But, what is it?  How long is the cycle?  Where will storm systems reach their peak strength?  Are we going to have a warm and dry winter, or a cold and stormy one?  How much snow will fall in your neighborhood?  These are questions that will be answered two weeks from tonight on our winter forecast special segment at 10 PM November 24th.  We will talk more about the weather pattern later in the week.

    Gary

  • Published Monday, November 10, 2008 6:03 AM by glezak

    Comments

     

    davidmcg said:

    Gary I could have sworn I heard it sleeting this morning around 3:30 here in Jefferson County KS.  Is there any way you can check if I was dreaming or it really happened?

    --------------

    I wouldn't be shocked to find out a little bit of sleet did fall early this morning.  I walked Breezy and Stormy around 5:30 AM during one of those showers, but it was all wet.

    Gary

    November 10, 2008 6:20 AM
     

    Brent said:

    snow is in the forecast!! I love november...lol

    ----------------

    Brent,

    Maybe just a few snow showers or flurries later in the week.  Don't get too excited yet.

    Gary

    November 10, 2008 7:09 AM
     

    whitmersm said:

    Gary - We're having some work done on our driveway and need it to be dry and not windy. Will Wednesday be good for that ?

    THANKS!
    November 10, 2008 7:45 AM
     

    Andrew_Stafford said:

    Gary,

    I see they are slowly taking Plus out of Action Weather, I hope that doesn't mean..... :(
    November 10, 2008 8:12 AM
     

    Andrew_Stafford said:

    Gary,

    Also, Are we going to have to reschedule now?

    ---------------

    Andrew,

    No!  We will see you Tuesday.

    Gary

    November 10, 2008 8:13 AM
     

    davidmcg said:

    Alright Gary it sure sounded like sleet.  We are about 300 to 400 feet higher than most of KC.
    November 10, 2008 10:30 AM
     

    KansasPatriot said:

    Brett thinks we will not get 1 inch of snow until Jan 7th?  Is he just guessing or does he really believe that?  

    ------------------

    You will have to ask Brett, but that is his forecast.

    Gary

    November 10, 2008 10:46 AM
     

    jbtornado said:

    Is this arctic air you are referring to building in Canada the blast coming in on Friday, or is this another blast developing for later?

    --------------------

    The cold front and cold surge due in later this week is not the air mass I am talking about.   The weather pattern hasn't set up yet to where a true Arctic air mass, there are just some signs of the ridge amplifying in the right spot.  Not sure yet.

    Gary

    November 10, 2008 11:03 AM
     

    bewild79 said:

    Man, it sure feels like it is cold enough to snow out there!!  It is brutal.  I feel for anyone that has to work outside, especially my hubby.  Keep warm!!!!
    Becky
    November 10, 2008 11:59 AM
     

    kcwxguy said:

    Canadian airmass building?  Could it be?  No..can't be.

    Let's go with a blurb from the NWS from the current AFD...it is pretty straightforward and similar...

    "ATTENTION THEN SHIFTS TO A LARGE SCALE PATTERN CHANGE TO WHICH I
    SPOKE OF LAST NIGHT. MEDIUM RANGE SOLUTIONS CONTINUE TO DEPICT A
    RAPID TRANSITION TOWARD A HIGH AMPLITUDE SINE WAVE FLOW PATTERN
    ACROSS THE CONUS...OWING TO A WELL-OBSERVED STRONG CROSS-PACIFIC JET
    THAT WILL DIVE FROM WESTERN CANADA INTO THE EASTERN US LATE WEEK.
    TELECONNECTIONS OF A LARGE VORTEX OVER THE GREAT LAKES AND EQUALLY
    STRONG RIDGING ALONG THE WEST COAST TRANSLATE TO A STRONG
    EQUATORWARD SURGE OF COLD CANADIAN AIR OVER THE CENTRAL
    CONUS...

    I think it is fair to say that cold air is coming.  Both Gary and the NWS are in agreement on this facet.  

    Deep Great Lakes ULL and a strong western ridge?  Lets pull out the trusty calculator and subtract some days..lets see what we get...

    Oh...its this.

    http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/dailywxmap/dwm_500ht_20081001.html

    It should yield several days of cold weather.  Finally as the Great Lakes low moves out, you should finally get some Pac coast troughing moving in for the next storm early next week...

    I think this...
    http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/namer/gfs/12/images/gfs_500_168l.gif

    is this
    http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/dailywxmap/dwm_500ht_20081006.html

    I wonder if the GFS doesn't deepen the central trough as more runs go on and as it gets closer.

    In all honestly, this is the storm I was expecting for the first inch of snow.  I first had it at 18-20th, and found that I might have erred [a few days ago] on the cycle duration in this part of the cycle and said around the 16th.  Looks like the GFS might meet me halfway?

    Its kinda fun...
    November 10, 2008 12:40 PM
     

    pvt_murphy said:

    it will be amazing if november ends up being below average temp wise after the first 5 days being as warm as they have been.  at one point, i noticed that we were running over 17 degrees above average for the month.  now we are down to a more realistic 4.8 degrees above average.  i believe by the end of the weekend we will be back towards the average for the month...but, the latter half of november is looking cold.  we will see i suppose.  i said this before but i find it interesting: if november ends up having below average temperatures, then kci will have experienced below average temps for 12 of the last 14 months.  i wonder when the last time that happened was? if i had to guess, i would say it hasnt happened since the 1960's...i could be wrong though.  maybe there was a point in the mid 80's where we had such a long cool streak.
    November 10, 2008 12:42 PM
     

    pvt_murphy said:

    we'll see scott.  i do believe some true arctic air is setting up for us.  will it get here by the time the storm comes though? thats the big question because i believe this arctic air regime we are entering is going to be overall a dry one.  im not saying there wont be setups that give us a chance at a big snow, i just think that we might have a drier winter qpf wise.  that of course doesnt mean less snow necessarily, but this winter might be more about the cold and clouds than the big snows.  speculation abounds, i know...the cycle has been setup for a while, so at this point its all about speculating whats going to happen the next time through, now.  

    on a separate note,  i bet this current storm will be a lot more interesting the next time around...i am impressed with the waa and low pressure placement.  this would be an ideal setup for snow if it was just later in the year.  it really was so close to coming to fruition this time that i have no doubt that if it is indeed 'around' in 43 days then we will probably get a good chance of accumulating snows.  by the way, whats ~43 days from now? december 23rd.  give it a 24 hour cushion on either side for timing issues, and we are looking at a potential(winter) storm just before christmas.  fitting, isnt it?
    November 10, 2008 1:04 PM
     

    sedsinkc said:

    My gut still tells me what it told me last week, that KC will have below average snowfall and an average to below average winter temperature-wise.  This winter's big snows will occur well NW of KC in the northern and western Plains and in the Appalachians/E Coast areas.  I'll say KCI gets 14 inches of snow or less this winter.

    It's nice and warm here in Tx, but a tornado watch has been issued for this area.  Not a huge threat, but it is there.  Maybe this system will bring some rain here.  Picked up .02" this early AM in brief showers that blossomed as they moved NE into a large area of rain headed towards KS and MO.  This area would love to get the 1" of rain that fell at the house in KC last week while I was back!

    November 10, 2008 1:23 PM
     

    kcwxguy said:

    pvt..I think the waa regime/setup will be a key to watch.  I have thought that this year upcoming would be wild with temp swings, which still may yield near normal averages over time, but as we go through these swings, the waa setups might be a major player.

    As far as QPF, we are nearing mid November, and still seeing PW values of near an inch.  I expect these to fall off as we go into Winter as that is normal, but I am not convinced yet of less QPF yet.

    I am really watching where/how the cold air sets up...I see it building in Alaska, but what is the transport to the south?  Where will that be?  

    Where are the longwaves?  How will this all work?  Sure, I have my thoughts..but finding that as more time passes, I am able to analyze more features that can provide a more accurate feel for what may be upcoming.

    Having time to review is invaluable this time of year.  

    I am sure Gary will have a feel for it when the Winter forecast is issued.

    ;-)
    November 10, 2008 1:46 PM
     

    MikeL said:

    I continue to agree with sedsinkc.

    Today is a perfect example of what I think will happen with many storms this year.  We are well within the WAA where the heavy snow track is well to the northwest in Northwest-north central Kansas into Nebraska (it is too warm for snow there this particular storm).

    I think we have seen this general storm track during Sep, Oct and early Nov.

    I'll be interested in what Gary says about the LRC. I think we'll have some big temperature swings but below average snowfall.

    One caveat - I would like to see how the rest of November plays out before saying for sure.
    November 10, 2008 2:51 PM
     

    Gr8ful Ted said:

    Good afternoon:  How do I research (find) dates with snowfall from last winter?
    Did we have any days with more than 3" of snowfall, in south KC/Leawood?
    November 10, 2008 3:00 PM
     

    nicknack said:

    I think the current cycle is around 41 days.  However we will have to wait to see if my snow prediction is correct.  I was a little hesitant putting down such a late date but after looking at Brett's date I feel better.  Let's go December 26th!
    November 10, 2008 3:09 PM
     

    bewild79 said:

    I kinda wish it would snow with this because I don't drive in it and that means I would have a day off of work!  LOL.  Just kidding I am not ready for it although it sure does feel cold enough to snow!
    November 10, 2008 3:37 PM
     

    NotesInTheMargin said:

    Scott -

    Are you still of the opinion that your cycle is 41 days long?  If so, do you have a response to Jeremy's question from yesterday's blog when you appeared to support a cycle length of 46 days?

    It is interesting that you've had this cycle length for so long.  It seems to me that this dissonance supports one of two options:

    1).  If Gary finds the same cycle length, it would support Scott's claim that the "cycle" can be defined earlier than Gary contends,

    2).  Alternatively, if Gary finds a *different* cycle length, it would support the notion that reasonable people could see different cycle lengths in the flow, thus negating the existence of just *one* cycle length.

    ------------------

    Notes,

    It is nice to hear from you tonight.  I am not going to make up a cycle length.  It is either there or not there and when we come up with the cycle length it will based on the entire weather pattern going through the cycle, not just one day.  It will be interesting to see if Scott has come up with something with the earlier identification of the cycle.  Maybe, maybe not.  We will know within days to weeks, more likely weeks from now.  I am still convinced that the "long term" longwave troughs and ridges did not set up before October.  So, whether there is a cycle that can be defined before October or not will be interesting.  I am making an assumption that there may be a cycle that evolves from our old weather pattern into the new one.  Most of it is likely defined later than Scott says.  This is not to say that the 40 to 43 day cycle didn't exist in September.  It seems as if it did, but now we may be into a very different cycle.  I see a lot of things in this weather pattern but will wait the two weeks before our winter forecast comes out just to make sure. 

    Gary

    November 10, 2008 3:49 PM
     

    RDub said:

    MikeL...we can still get snow from WAA regimes, as long as the cold air is cold and deep enough. These tend to be the widespread snows that don't produce a huge amount, but also don't create the huge disparities, where someone gets 10" and another part of town gets nothing.

    Gra8tful Ted--there are dozens of places to find that info. A good start might be to look in the archived posts from this blog (I think they keep them for that long). Another good start is weather underground's station histories (www.wunderground.com). The calendar view is good for seeing whole months at a time.
    November 10, 2008 4:40 PM
     

    WEATHERdude said:

    Thats a good question ted... i would like to know what you find! cuz last year, after all of the plentiful snows, i dont recall having a day with more than 3 inches falling with each snow, it always ended up around 2.5-3.5 from what i measure, i thought that the consistancy was odd.

    and im agreeing with bewild... its chilly now, but i guess it IS fall...

    CANT WAIT FOR THE FIRST SNOW!
    November 10, 2008 5:15 PM
     

    DPannell said:

    I'm with Brett!  I'm pretty sure my guess for the snowflake contest is Jan. 7th as well.  Still doing the "no snow, no snow" stomp in Paola.
    ;)
    --deb
    November 10, 2008 5:15 PM
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