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Update...Comparing Novembers...November 19, 2008

Afternoon update:  Wow, what a day!  We did reach 66 downtown and 64 at KCI.  We had been forecasting 62 to 65 degrees for today's high for the past week so we are quite proud of today's forecast on the big warm-up.  The cold front is about to blast through!  We will be tracking these changes and look ahead into Thanksgiving week at 5, 6, and 10 PM tonight.

Previous entry below:

Good morning bloggers,

We are five nights away from our winter forecast.  It will be on NBC Action News at 10 PM Monday night. 

So, what is this weather pattern that we believe is now in place and cycling?  It is very complex as we see one major storm track that dives down over the plains into eastern troughs, and another part of the pattern, a second storm track that does break into the west coast with storm systems dropping in west and southwest of Kansas City.  We are currently waiting for this second storm track to return and it has been frustrating waiting for the models to predict this trend.  But, we are expecting it at any time.  I wouldn't mind if it would hold off until after next week, one of the biggest travel weeks of the year.  But, my confidence is still low on it staying dry all next week.  More on this forecast tonight on NBC Action News.

Does what happens in November really matter for what is about to happen this winter?  Let's compare last November to November, 2008:

Average temperature:

2007:  1.2 degrees above average   2008:  1.2 degrees above average

Precipitation: 

0.20"  (0.4" of snow)         2008:  1.18" (trace of snow)

Days 60 degrees or higher:

2007:   10 of the first 20 days    2008:  6 (so far)

Last year, the first 20 days of November were much above average with no measurable precipitation.  Then it snowed twice on the 21st and the 24th as much colder air moved in, but it was still a dry month of November.  This year has been very different as we have had at least a trace of precipitation at KCI 9 of the first 18 days of this month.  It has been much wetter than last year, after a wet September and October.  And, we still don't know how the last 10 days of the month will pan out, although there isn't a strong storm showing up at this moment. 

What does this mean for the rest of the winter?  Perhaps not much! Last November was dry and rather warm, at least the first 20 days were warm, and then it was a cold and wild ride through winter. We believe that the weather pattern sets up between October 1st and November 10th and then begins cycling (Go to www.LRCWeather.com for more on my weather pattern theory the LRC).  So, we believe that the weather pattern is set, but what happens specifically in November may or may not be an indicator of what happens the next few months.  More likely it is what happens in the upper levels of the atmosphere during the last six weeks leading up to today.  And, this part of the weather pattern has been just fascinating.  I will add a lot more thoughts on what all of this means very soon.

Now, onto today's weather:

The above map is the forecast surface map from the RUC model valid at 11 AM this morning.  The leading edge of the north winds and colder air will be surging our way as we move into the afternoon, and by this evening that cold front (the blue line) will be way past Kansas City.  Look at the strong surface high that was generated in Canada.  This has a central pressure of around 1047 mb, or 30.91".  Last winter we barely had surface highs that strong all season long.  This could be a sign of things to come.  Right now there is hardly any true Arctic air that has built up.  We will have to keep monitoring northern Canada and Alaska closely for the development of any Arctic air masses.  This will be a strong cold front, however and we could drop all the way into the teens by Friday morning.  And, we are still watching that Pacific storm closely for Friday night.  Unless it makes a turn southeast and holds together our chance of any snow Friday night will stay slim. 

The European model and the GFS model are both showing a stormier trend within about 10 days. I will talk about this change on the air tonight.

Have a fantastic day!  Remember our winter forecast is just 5 days away, Monday night at 10 PM on NBC Action News.

Gary

Published Wednesday, November 19, 2008 5:53 AM by glezak

Comments

 

momof3 said:

Don't tease us!  Have a good day!  I hope the wheel stops spinning in a place that gives Independence LOTS of snow!

-----------------------

We will find out soon!

Gary

November 19, 2008 6:19 AM
 

kcwxguy said:

Additional moisture is good...now, its just a matter of cold air and where does it all land?  I have to think that the GFS is so confused right now.  It starts off well..but...oh well.

;-)

--------------------------------

The models took on a different look overnight!

Gary

November 19, 2008 6:34 AM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

If we could just displace that Friday night wave about 300 miles south, things might be interesting...  Do yous till hold out hope for snowflakes Friday night, Gary?

I'm starting to get a bit anxious for our first significant flakes of the year...having moved down here from MN, this mild November weather is rough.

-----------------------

Notes,

It still could dive harder south, but I think the chance is down to 1%.  So, how long are we going to have to wait?  My prediction is December 3rd for the contest, so we'll see.

The NAM just came out, but it really is too far north.

Gary

November 19, 2008 8:32 AM
 

jbtornado said:

Gary,

Notice how this NW flow in the jet stream has been consistent for quite a while now.. I would assume this will be a factor in the coming LRC, and may mean a few waves of bitterly cold air coming in east of the Rockies later in the winter.

We already have a decent snowpack in the Dakotas and if we can just get a few decent snows up north in the next 3-4 weeks, it would not be unreasonable to assume we will have polar to arctic airmasses plunge south with nothing but snowcover from the North Pole to here.

Just my thoughts for the day, you do a great job thinking out alot of the other scenarios and trying to pin down the whole pattern. I  am hoping after you present your forecast Monday, you put the forecast here on the blog.

Jon
----------------------

Jon,

Good observations, and the big question will be how much is this trough to our east going to dominate?  There are other parts to the pattern as well that exist.  It is very complex.

I will lay it out in the blog next week.

Gary

November 19, 2008 8:41 AM
 

MikeL said:

Gary, that's funny you would post this because I just checked this for Topeka yesterday for November 1-17:

                      2008           2007
avg temp          48.6            48.6    exactly the same - about 3 degs above normal
precip               0.62            0.00    both below normal - wetter this year

It's interesting that temps have been pretty much the same this year. It will be interesting to see what the rest of Novmeber brings.  I'm still in the camp - for now - that NW/NC Kansas into Nebraska will be the favored heavy snow areas this year - but we'll see!

Mike
-----------------

Mike,

I hope you are right!

Gary

                   

November 19, 2008 8:49 AM
 

sedsinkc said:

Gary and team, it is a very interesting and important observation you make with respect to the LRC, last November's sensible weather, and the sensible weather through the rest of last fall and winter being different than last November's.  The LRC sets up in October and November, last November was mild and dry, yet the rest of the winter was cold and wet.  My thought is that the pattern sets up, but then it is changes in the amplitude of the pattern as it cycles that control the sensible weather.  Do you predict changes in the long wave amplitude during future cycles when making your forecast, or is your forecast based on the longwave amplitude being similar for each cycle?  I go back to your February 2008 prediction of a major winter storm close to Easter very near Kansas City that did not materialize.  You acknowledged that the anticipated storm did not materialize in the blog.  The longwave pattern that actually occurred around Easter was much flatter than what you had anticipated, based on your forecast, is that correct?  If I'm totally off base here, please set me straight.  Is predicting the longwave amplitude or the latitude of the base of the longwave troughs and peak of longwave ridges through each LRC cycle the most vexing problem in using the LRC as a long-range local forecasting tool?

----------------

This is excellent!  Yes, the prediction of the amplitude of each cycle and whether or not splitting will occur are two of the toughest parts of predicting sensible weather.  I believe the "long term" longwaves are there whether it is high or low amplitude.  The one thing we know for certain is that the weather pattern will become much more energetic during the next 60 days.  And, this is a major factor to consider.  What will happen when the flow reaches its peak strength two months from now?  And, what we think right now will be a first "guess" or forecast.  It is always later in December when we get more of the answers to your great points above.  And, this is when our forecasts were much more accurate.

Gary

November 19, 2008 10:26 AM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

I think we are entering October 1 or 2nd part of the cycle:

http://tinyurl.com/6dfjac

http://tinyurl.com/6jkx9l
Gary, what do you think?
That little trough is what might be coming through Friday/Saturday:

http://tinyurl.com/637teg

http://tinyurl.com/5pod8x
November 19, 2008 11:05 AM
 

kcwxguy said:

Seds - good observations.  Having spent a considerable amount of time trending the sensible weather as it relates to the cycle, there are certainly some interesting aspects in this view.

Seasonal changes certainly makes a HUGE difference.  Because of the duration of the "average" cycle, different surface results certainly can happen based on amplitude and jet location each time around.  

It will be fun!

jb - I agree with your thoughts on the NW flow...just how much and how often is the question?  The other parts of the pattern are quite interesting, and we may have quite the adventure ahead of us for this Winter.

November 19, 2008 1:30 PM
 

Jhwk33 said:

From above Gary says:

This has a central pressure of around 1047 mb, or 30.91".  Last winter we barely had surface highs that strong all season long.  This could be a sign of things to come.  

What does this imply, warmer than avg temps or colder than avg temps?  

He also says:

one major storm track that dives down over the plains into eastern troughs, and another part of the pattern, a second storm track that does break into the west coast with storm systems dropping in west and southwest of Kansas City.

Which of these provides the best chance for snow in KC? and which do we believe is prominant this winter?

Gary or anyone with knowledge of this please answer.

Brent
November 19, 2008 2:35 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

Currently sitting at 69 degrees here in Lee's Summit. WOW!

------------

You said it!  Wow!  I am not surprised as we thought temps would jump today.

Gary

November 19, 2008 2:58 PM
 

NotesInTheMargin said:

This sure is an unassuming cold front at first glance...flow has already shifted to the north, but temps are holding nicely in the 60s...and even up toward LNK in the same northerly surface flow it is still in the 60s this hour...

...but just travel a bit further north...it is in the 30s in OFK!  

--------------------

Notes,

This is just a seasonal Canadian cold front, but it will be cold on Thursday. 

It appears we may be close to identifying this years cycle.  The models are heading in the direction of October at a fast, very fast pace.  It isn't what the computer says that counts though, so let's be patient another few days.

Gary

November 19, 2008 3:18 PM
 

kcwxguy said:

Brent, to answer your second question first, that is a tough question.  Both could yield precip for our area.  

The storm track of the SW trough might indicate larger/cutoff type systems with more potential due to the synoptic advantages it may have in grabbing deeper moisture and other factors...but it is still tough to say which will yield more.

This is where the long-term longwaves may come into play as to who gets what and how.

Both are possible, but we will have to watch them as we progress.

As far as the first question, strong surface high pressure in Western Canada with a strong NW flow from the eastern troughing could create a conveyor belt of cold air into the region.  The question is how cold, how long, and how deep is the cold air?

Gary certainly is reviewing all these features in his analysis [and more!], and I would expect it to be factored into his winter forecast, now just a few days away!

;-)
November 19, 2008 3:33 PM
 

kcwxguy said:

Notes - it seems more like a windshift with the cold air lagging a bit.  I am trying to get a feel for the cold air depth and strength this year...seems quite a bit different than last year.

The pattern is going to be very interesting in how cold air is transported - IMO.  We will see, I suppose...
November 19, 2008 3:35 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

About 1 1/2 wks left of Weather Plus, they shut down on December 1st according to wikipedia. :(
November 19, 2008 4:31 PM
 

Brocksmama said:

kcwxguy or anyone, by "amplitude" do you mean the strength of the longwave pattern?  Dea

--------------

Dea,

By amplitude we mean that the flow aloft becomes more north and south!  So, when we have the flow coming straight out of Canada that would be a high amplitude pattern.  When it is from west to east we call this zonal flow.

November 19, 2008 4:36 PM
 

juba said:

What will the weather be like if the storm does turn southeast?

------------

The reason we had a slight chance of snow in the forecast for Friday night is because I thought there was a chance it would turn southeast.  We still need to watch it, but the strong trend is for it to go north.  Where it tracks there is a chance of snow.

Gary

November 19, 2008 5:38 PM
 

Snow Day said:

Well, cold front has passed through here in Omaha Nebraska and temps went down 15 degrees! Gonna be a chilly 34 degrees on Thursday and Friday! next friday looking interesting, maybe a storm system?

---------------

I think most of us are ready for a storm!

Gary

November 19, 2008 5:41 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

According to the NWS it hit 65 at KCI!! Yes! Bullseye for me!!!

--------------

Great forecast Andrew! We had 65 in there until yesterday, when we dropped it to 62.  Still within 3 degrees, but we should have hit it out of the park like you.

Gary

November 19, 2008 5:55 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Thanks Gary! Now back to researching the LRC, after I do my Homework of course!! :)
November 19, 2008 6:31 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

Boy, looking at the 18Z GFS you would think Gary knew something in advance about his December 3rd pick for the first inch of snow. :)

Didn't Jeff Penner have the 3rd pegged too?? Hmmmm, interesting....
November 19, 2008 7:42 PM
 

davidmcg said:

Gary I would say the cold front has already came through here in McLouth KS.  The wind has shifted to the north at 8 gusting to 12.  I am sure the temp which is 53 now will start falling fairly soon.  As bad as I hate to say it, getting a little dry, we could use some moisture, preferably not the frozen kind.  By the way, I saw the prizes for the Snowflake contest, very nice.  Makes me wish I would have entered it now.  I did pencil in my guess and oddly enough I picked the same day you did.  But I picked mine on Oct. 1.  It was a guess.  You and the puppies will get your snow soon enough.
November 19, 2008 7:48 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

Ugh, the weather is going to be boring the next 7 days!  Perhaps this is natures gift before December?  Kind of like a calm before the storm maybe?
November 19, 2008 9:21 PM
 

Brocksmama said:

Thanks for answering my question! It makes more sense now!  dea
November 19, 2008 9:26 PM
 

momof3 said:

Anybody have any preliminary thoughts on the week after thanksgiving?  Leaving for vacation on the 30th and DO NOT want snow while we are gone!  It needs to wait until at least the 6th.  Just thought I would get my request in early!!  HAHA!
November 19, 2008 10:35 PM
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