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What else...the storm!...UPDATE

For Kansas City's most accurate forecast tune into NBC Action News HD after NFL football and Monday from 5-7 a.m.

*******************************

Here's a quick update.  I wanted to hold off until after our main weather segment during our late show.  If you saw that segment I mentioned that the storm comes in two parts like the map below indicates.  Part one should bring 0.25" to 0.75" of rain, maybe a thunderstorm, and a little snow.  The moisture races off just after it turns to snow.  Areas that could see say an inch or two of snow would be in northeast Kansas and northwest Missouri.  Around the metro totals will be under 1" and likely closer to a trace to half inch.  A slight change here or there could mean the snowflake contest still ends Tuesday, so it is something we will watch closely.  Keep in mind if the changeover occurs quicker and say 0.05" to 0.10" of liquid falls as snow there could be a quick 1" or more in Kansas City.  But right now I'm leaning in the direction of very little accumulation.  We are still well over a day away from any snow, so check back Monday and Gary will have an update.

******************************

Good evening everyone.  The weather team is going to have a conference call this evening to discuss our thoughts and the forecast for the upcoming storm.  At that time we will put some specific snow totals on paper.  Until then I'm going to stick with these initial thoughts.  I still believe the snowflake contest very likely ends Tuesday.  In order for the contest to end there needs to be 1" of snow at the NBC studios.  Greatest snow accumulation will likely occur near or north of I-70.  Southeast areas will still see snow, but I think accumulations will be less than central and northern locations.  Some locations may see flurries or very little snow.

Let's discuss where this storm is coming from and some of the challenges ahead.

The infrared satellite shows the 2 waves that will produce our rain and snow along the West Coast.  Wave #1 a well defined upper low is over southern California.  This will move east and help to spread rain across the area late Monday.  Ahead of wave #1 there will be very mild air pushed into the Plains and Midwest.  That is why forecast highs are in the 50s for Monday.

 

Wave #2 is the big question mark.  Will it form into an upper low, will it strengthen, or will it move through positively tilted and produce a quick hitting snow and be gone.  Wave #2 is the key to this storm if you want snow.  This wave will help to draw in the cold air and will also produce lift as it moves near the area.  So with moisture and cold air in place this would result in a band of snow.  But how much and where will it occur?

The forecast models aren't as bullish in regards to snow totals for Tuesday, but that could change.  The 18Z models I look at vary from a few tenths of an inch to around 3" for Kansas City.  One thing that is pretty common among the models is whichever location picks up the most snow will likely be near or north of I-70.  Totals will be less to the south and east.

After the weather team discusses things I will add some more thoughts.  In the meantime with a warm front nearing us tonight a few sprinkles or a light shower could fall over mainly northeast Kansas or northwest Missouri.  The metro probably stays dry and mild with temperatures hanging in the upper 30s for much of tonight.

Jeremy

Published Sunday, December 07, 2008 6:17 PM by Jeremy WxPlus

Comments

 

NorthlandKB said:

I guess I made a good choice by moving to the Northland last year...bring on the snow!
December 7, 2008 7:13 PM
 

DPannell said:

Woohoooo keep it up North!  Beautiful night, 47 in Paola, cloudy, light wind not bad at all.  Looks like tomorrow morning will make for a great early morning walk before the rain moves in.  Here's hoping for "no snow, no snow"!
December 7, 2008 7:22 PM
 

juba said:

Seems like the march 05 storm, everone was predicting 1-2' of snow snow (Feet) and it was just rain.
December 7, 2008 7:30 PM
 

Teamster83 said:

we just cant get a 8-10 inch snow storms here anymore. 3 inches is decent but far from a heavy snow.


just another heartbreak
December 7, 2008 7:43 PM
 

EGroves said:

What can we expect for the Overland Park Area?
December 7, 2008 7:44 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

1 hour and 15 minutes til the season finale of Storm Chasers!! =]

Ohh yea, bring on a lot of snow

Alex
December 7, 2008 7:48 PM
 

W0XDL said:

Keep your chins up snow lovers:)  It sounds like we could get a nice snow out of this and, as you know, there is still time for some changes which could positively impact our chances for heavier snow.

DL
December 7, 2008 7:52 PM
 

jacob said:

What else is new...me and Brent are going to get missed again...:(
December 7, 2008 8:01 PM
 

sweetness said:

If you look at Weather.com and and type in your zip code at the top and go to the ten day forcast and click tuesday it says snow pretty much all day. Still no winter storm watch here. =[ Oh well i need to move to Colorado to get big snows. This sucks darn you north you guys get everything unfair.
December 7, 2008 8:07 PM
 

stjoelawyer said:

You are saying higher amnts north I-70 how far north?  Last year I made the point that St Joseph to 1Oth and Walnut is only a 54 mile drive and 45 miles in a straight line.  So where will be the magic line be?  KCI, DEARBORN or somewhere in between???
December 7, 2008 8:13 PM
 

Husky07 said:

Jacob what do you think about Lee's Summit?
December 7, 2008 8:14 PM
 

Braysmama said:

Looking back to last season, I think the biggest snow event at my house was not even 3 inches. Most were about a half inch giving us a seasonal total of 11 inches approximately. I would hate to see the same thing this year. :(

**********************

Send the lack of snow toward my house:)

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 8:15 PM
 

stjoelawyer said:

I do not expect a WATCH for any part of the area. Remember criteria 6 inches in 12 hrs or 8 inches in 24.  No more Heavy Snow Warnings.  Only WINTER STORM WARNING with amout and precip type stated in the forcast.  Blizzard criteria is 35 mph for min of 3 hrs while we will have wind we will not criteria.  But in the end it will be pretty.  The weekend and next week all week hold promise as well.

***********************

I don't see this heading in the direction of a watch.  If anything is issued maybe a Winter Weather Advisory for parts of the area.  That still may be wishful thinking.

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 8:20 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

00Z NAM moves the storm through much faster

Still seems to be very minimal on snowfall.

This is going to be very close on the snowflake contest.

Where will the GFS fall? It was trending toward the NAM today.

Not good....
December 7, 2008 8:20 PM
 

NorthlandKB said:

I'm getting my snowshovel all shined up and ready to go...my wife is making fun of me!
December 7, 2008 8:21 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

Husky,

I live in Lee's Summit.

I wouldnt get my hopes up for anything more than an inch.

We will be lucky to hit that mark, IMO.

The team may have a completely different opinion.

I hope they do! ;)
December 7, 2008 8:22 PM
 

sweetness said:

http://charlie.wxcaster.com/GFSArchive.php?datetime=2008120712Z&fcsthour=48&type=SFC_ACCUM-PRECIP

Still looks alright i think the maps are a little off tho. I still think we will have some heavy snow in kc. It just need to go a little further south and we could have a big snow storm.
December 7, 2008 8:24 PM
 

sweetness said:

http://charlie.wxcaster.com/GFSArchive.php?datetime=2008120712Z&fcsthour=72&type=SFC_ACCUM-PRECIP

This is the 72 hour accum precip from the GFS. I was just messing around and found it forgot to add it in to my last comment my bad
December 7, 2008 8:26 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

Sweetness.

Atleast 75% of that accumulated precip on that map will be all rain.

:(
December 7, 2008 8:33 PM
 

Greg said:

The moisture will be all but gone before its cold enough for the change-over, minor accumulations at best!
December 7, 2008 8:38 PM
 

FlakeFan said:

I know what the NWS will issue for us, A Disapointing Snow Storm Advisory! (DSSA)
December 7, 2008 8:45 PM
 

FlakeFan said:

BTW, its REALLY warm outside, almost 50 degrees!
December 7, 2008 8:46 PM
 

chiefsfan said:

im still think that the weather team will have metro at 2-4
December 7, 2008 9:00 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

2-4" is what I'm staying at right now
December 7, 2008 9:01 PM
 

chiefsfan said:

what time did the latest data come out

********************

What we need from the GFS will be out in about 30 minutes.

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 9:02 PM
 

stjoelawyer said:

no more SNOW ADVSRY  ....NWS did away with SN ADVSRY and HVY SN WARN this year Only Winter Weather Avsory and WINTER STRM WRNING....ICE BULLITENS stay the same.
December 7, 2008 9:03 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

SO many different forecasts, so little time, so many variables! Who will be right?
December 7, 2008 9:05 PM
 

chfs327 said:

doesnt new data come out now

****************

Yes...but the stuff I really want to see won't be out for about 20 mins.

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 9:25 PM
 

chfs327 said:

I would Laugh really hard if it went back to about 6-8 inches.
December 7, 2008 9:39 PM
 

chiefsfan said:

 Im still thinking that it will be for : 3-5" northern, 2-4" metro, 1-3", southern
December 7, 2008 9:43 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

00Z GFS continues to trend toward the weaker NAM.

Snow amounts will continue to go down....
December 7, 2008 9:51 PM
 

twister11 said:

the gfs and the nam have both trended toward lesser amounts rather than higher amounts. i think the team will keep this in mind as they make their predictions.
December 7, 2008 9:52 PM
 

LRCfan said:

south side dusting north side 2 inches that would be my guess and if we get any more it would be a bonus.
December 7, 2008 9:52 PM
 

LRCfan said:

Poof lol it just has been trending further and further north.
December 7, 2008 9:53 PM
 

chiefsfan said:

GFS saying anything? anyone
December 7, 2008 10:02 PM
 

Ipushsnow said:

The soow will go POOF, but the rain will be heavy but cold:(
December 7, 2008 10:04 PM
 

sweetness said:

I still am hoping for more than this. I want a ton hopefully all the models are wrong..... wait no their right just a little further east and south oh ya. thats perfect =]
December 7, 2008 10:06 PM
 

Ipushsnow said:

Boy my typing is bad, good thjng I don't do this for a living :)
December 7, 2008 10:10 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

I am very disappointed in this "storm" as many are.  However, winter starts December 21st I think.  We still have plenty of chances for a whopping snow.

***********************

Really it won't be a bad storm.  Rain totals may be around 0.25" to 0.75" and a few rumbles of thunder may be heard Monday night.  The snow will probably be disappointing for many though.  This is a good example of why we continued to hold off making a snow forecast.  It has gone from looking like small amount to large amounts to small amounts.  It could change again, but both the NAM & GFS are starting to agree.

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 10:12 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

According to the LRC this should be our big storm.... if the 48 day cycle that the LRCWeather page defauts to is the right cycle length...

http://www.lrcweather.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=26&Itemid=30



December 7, 2008 10:21 PM
 

Fire Dog said:

I will wait for TOMMROWS models.  Things can/will always change.
December 7, 2008 10:22 PM
 

Ipushsnow said:

It seems nobody wants to put any amounts out there yet.
December 7, 2008 10:23 PM
 

LRCfan said:

Well it has been dry lately so at least we will get some rain out of this, maybe we can watch another storm the week of the 15th.
December 7, 2008 10:27 PM
 

outgoing101 said:

Well I wanted snow for this week, but it is probably better it does not snow, it is the week before finals and I like to have that one last class before you take the final.

If there is one indication of not having snow though it is that I put off washing my car because I figured it would get all snowy.
December 7, 2008 10:29 PM
 

kellyann said:

There is no amounts to put out there.....maybe an inch or so I-29/435 north but points south, a dusting to an inch..That is my thoughts and what I see. Top end to the north would be 2-2.4 inches. Everyone have a good night!!
December 7, 2008 10:32 PM
 

mattmaisch said:

I'm as on board as the next guy when it comes to the idea of the models changing, but for the models to transition this storm into a big snowmaker for KC would be just shy of a miracle.  Essentially there is absolutely no way.  Every run of every model continues to suggest less snow and more warm air.  For this trend to reverse itself in the next 36 hours would suggest we have serious problems with our computer models.  I will be shocked if the WSW for portions of Iowa is allowed to continue as the latest data suggests that even they will be too warm for snow until it's too late.  This thing will not produce snow in KC, you can be pretty darn sure of that, and I'm far from an expert.  One of these days we will get a good one though.
December 7, 2008 10:36 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

That was the greatest episode of storm chasers I have seen out of the 2 seasons!

Watching it again!! =]

Alex
December 7, 2008 10:36 PM
 

Ipushsnow said:

I will take 2-2.4 up north,as long as it all sticks on the parking lots ;]
December 7, 2008 10:39 PM
 

bewild79 said:

lezakef5,
I COMPLETELY agree.  That show is so intense!!!
December 7, 2008 10:41 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

Matt,

Well said. I couldnt agree with you more...
December 7, 2008 10:43 PM
 

chfs327 said:

Anthing with GFS Models
December 7, 2008 10:43 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

I am also waiting till tomorrows model come out, the models are out to lunch
December 7, 2008 10:46 PM
 

twister11 said:

well i guess look at how fast it changed just today. who knows may do that tomorrow.
December 7, 2008 10:49 PM
 

LRCfan said:

Jeremy interesting temp spread out there I have 34 right now in Leavenworth I know you were showing 48 in some areas wow.
December 7, 2008 10:52 PM
 

HailJonathan said:

I want some action darn it I hope it's at least better than the 1 inch that I got last week.
December 7, 2008 10:55 PM
 

mattmaisch said:

chfs327...

The only thing that came out with the new GFS was rain, with a brief changeover to snow, and little or no accumulation.

Matt
December 7, 2008 10:55 PM
 

bewild79 said:

that makes me sad =(
December 7, 2008 11:02 PM
 

Adam Penney said:

Well unless you live in Maryville, the team says you will se LESS than an inch....

Maybe next time...

:(

******************

Certainly things could change again, but I promised to put some totals out and I feel pretty confident.  The second wave that comes thru really won't be around when the moisture is here...and it is so far south.  That is why it is wave one that we will rely on for our snow.  Manhattan to Hiawatha to Maryville stands the best change of turning the ground white.  If the moisture hangs back with the colder air the totals could change so our initial estimates aren't locked in and could change.  But right now I'll take the chance of thunderstorms over the chance of a big storm:)

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 11:04 PM
 

Ipushsnow said:

BOO HOO :(

I'm going to bed and hope it changes over night.

***************************

Watch Brett Anthony from 5-7 a.m. he'll have a brand new powercast and the latest data!

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 11:05 PM
 

StormWyndd said:

Whew, from what Jeremy just said on tv, we have dodged the snowflake bullet yet again.  

I have noticed something odd the past couple of mornings.  When I go out front,  there has been a flock of robins out there, like a couple dozen of them.  Don't know what to make of this, kind of thought they were all done migrating.  Anyone else seen robins around?
December 7, 2008 11:09 PM
 

WEATHERdude said:

well... that was sad for snow lovers, total opposite from what we want! lol im going with ipushsnow and hoping for a change overnite :D

and thats an interesting observation storm, but to be honest i havent seen a robin in idk how long.... they mite be lost lol
December 7, 2008 11:14 PM
 

ATL 2 KCMO said:

Hey jermy or anyone who knows what are the times that the GFS and NAM come out and what is a good site to see the modles and what dose oo and 06 and 12 and 18 mean

************************

This is the model site I like.

http://www.nco.ncep.noaa.gov/pmb/nwprod/analysis/

The next NAM run is at 2 a.m.  and GFS at 3:30 a.m.  after that just add 6 hours and you will get another update.

Jeremy

December 7, 2008 11:16 PM
 

Emmysmom said:

So I guess what you are saying is I shouldn't waste a vacation day on Tuesday?? I'm kind of bummed...and while I dont want the snow, my daughter would be very happy to see something on her birthday.
So it looks like the drive to work on Tuesday may be sloppy...will it be done and out of here by the drive home?

And unrelated to KC, what do you see for Lincoln, NE for the next couple days? My mom drives from Lincoln to NE City and is a little nervous about driving to and from work the next couple days.
December 7, 2008 11:16 PM
 

ATL 2 KCMO said:

well we need the rain
December 7, 2008 11:18 PM
 

ATL 2 KCMO said:

I think im going to move back to Atlanta it seems to snow more there then it dose here
December 7, 2008 11:21 PM
 

Teamster83 said:

just another reason why this city blows of epic porportions
December 7, 2008 11:49 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

I'm staying up to 2am, I think it will change
December 7, 2008 11:49 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

I will be up as well Andrew.  Let us hope.  We could all blame Gary, but then that probably wouldnt be fair.  Last night we were looking at maps showing 8-10 inches of snow over KC.  Now we are going to barely get anything.  AMAZING how quickly things change.  If only more people realized how unstable it can sometimes get.

Which is why tonight...may change into something else tomorrow after 12pm.  Who knows....
December 7, 2008 11:59 PM
 

lezakEF5 said:

This forecast snowfall is still probably too high right now.

http://wxcaster.com/gis-gfs-snow-overlays.php3?STATIONID=EAX

Alex
December 8, 2008 12:18 AM
 

mattmaisch said:

Andrew..

I love your determination, and can't wait until we all have a real snowstorm to get excited about, but I don't think this is the one pal.  All indications say this one isn't good for those of us wanting decent snow accumulations.  Sure hope I'm wrong, but I don't think the 6Z data is going to do anything but reduce snow totals even more..  Sure hope I get to say I was wrong tomorrow, but, it doesn't look good..

Matt
December 8, 2008 1:10 AM
 

KansasPatriot said:

Guess I will need an umbrella now.  =(
December 8, 2008 1:28 AM
 

Fire Dog said:

Snow Storm go POOF.  Rain storm say HELLO. :-(
December 8, 2008 2:56 AM
 

Fire Dog said:

GFS is a little better then the NAM, but not by much.
December 8, 2008 4:31 AM
 

billinlawrence said:

Gary:

Good mild early December morning to you sir!! Curently sitting at 42 degrees this morning under clear skies-very nice out this morning for sure!! On satelite this morning you can see the strom trying to get organized-I think!!

Ok-I admit it, I am a fool-I am still holding out a slim buit of hope that this system evolves just a bit different than what the models are showing-foolish for sure but I am always one to grasp at a few straws!!! My reasons are even more foolish, but I will kind of throw them out there anyways:

1. 9 out of 10 times these types of systems do exactly what the models are depicting at the moment-it is tough for us to get good snow when we don't have cold air in place already. However, there is that one in 10 times that the cold air gets here quicker and the strom intensifies a bit more than the guidance suggested. A great example was the thunder snow event last Dedcember here in Lawrence. I just think thias still needs to be watched some waht.

2. There is cold air to the North-it is not in the best location-more in Minnesota but there are some teens and single digits in Central North Dakota back into Southern Sasch. So the storm does have some cold air to work with if it can get it down here. I also wonder if this temp. gradient may not intensify things a bit more than the models show at the moment.

3. The wind shift line is already into Western Kansas and through the Nebraska Pan Handle-it will be interesting to watch this today. It will also be interesting to watch just how far North this warmer air actually goes-it looks like it is done progressing North but something also to watch-if it continues North....

4. Big limb here as I am still trying to get my hands around the pattern this year: this storm ( I think this is the October 23rd storm) was a bit stronger in October and I just wonder if maybe the models are still a bit off.

5. I am a Snow Lover and will always hold out hope till the very end no matter how much data is staring me in the face LOL!!!! It aint over till it s over!!

All this being said in the end, this is still a weather maker-we need the rain/moisture bad so it is welcome no matter what form it may fall. Stil for me, while I would love a good snow, the most important thing is that the strom is here right on schedule just as the LRC said it would be-that rocks!!!

Well, this will be fun to watch unfold-as far as next week-man you talk bout varying model solutions over the next few days-they will be spitting all kinds of stuff out on when to eject that energy out of the SW-thank goodness for the LRC!!

Have a great day and as always thanks for reading!!!

Bill in Lawrence
December 8, 2008 5:52 AM
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