NBC Action Communities

Blogs
Welcome to NBC Action Communities Sign in | Join | Help
in
Back to NBCActionNews.com Home Blogs

NBC Action Weather Blog

Energetic, stormy pattern....December 22, 2008

Good morning bloggers and Happy Chanukah!

Tis the season to discuss what is going on with this weather pattern.  While we watch video of snow falling in Seattle, Boston, Houston, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Chicago, Minneapolis, and many other places it makes one wonder what is going on?  This weather pattern is just fascinating, frustrating, exciting, and yet leaves us wondering what is really going to happen this winter.  Will we have a big winter storm, or will they all be small and quick moving?  I still believe it will all come together at least one or two times this winter where we see significant snow either in this cycle or the next one as described by the LRC. 

Jeremy posted this satellite picture from yesterday afternoon.  This shows that I-70 is right near the cut off for significant snow on the ground and it was a factor with the low temperatures this morning as KCI airport dropped to 3 below zero, but it was just above zero south of I-70. 

There are two storm systems and a fast moving disturbance that will affect us this week.  We believe we are in around a 50 to 53 day cycle give or take a few days.  In October into November when the LRC was just setting up these storm systems were a bit larger and more organized than they are showing up in this second cycle. This doesn't mean that this disorganization in our part of the nation will continue.  Let's look at this next storm heading our way.  We are going to look at some complex maps this morning at the 500 mb level.  Just look for the big X located just south of Dodge City on this 48 hour GFS forecast valid mdignight Tuesday night:

There will likely be a band of 3 to 5 inch snowfall amounts along and north of this upper level storm track. The X is what we call a vorticity maximum, or "vort max".  This vort max is a fast moving shortwave in the flow.  When vorticity is increasing along the flow we call it positive vorticity advection or PVA.  There is some strong PVA approaching the area Tomorrow night, but it will be fast moving.  Along and north of the vort max is where most of the lifting to produce precipitation will be located.  South of the vort max will likely be a strong dry slot and the precipitation will be shut off and the air will sink.  So, this is why the track of this vort max is so important.  And, can you see how hard it will be to forecast whether or not we will see snowfall accumulation on Christmas Eve morning.  Look where this is forecast to track on the next map:

This GFS model run is forecasting the vort max to track right near Kansas City.  If it is correct then we would have snow accumulate on Christmas Eve early morning, but some of you may miss this if it tracks just north of you.  Let's look at the new data this morning and see what the trend is on the track and other features that are trying to come together.

And, now, let' look ahead to Saturday's storm system.  Again, look at the bix X or vort max forecast for noon Saturday.  This is oriented a bit differently than the earlier in the week storm, but still somewhat related at the same time. 

Happy holidays everyone.  This is going to be another rather wild and crazy week of weather.  I will try to update the blog later this afternoon after we analyze all of the data.

Gary

Published Monday, December 22, 2008 5:44 AM by glezak

Comments

 

GaryB said:

Gary, it seems to me the LRC could still be setting up or morphing a bit within the 50 something day cycle.
I also agree unless something dramatically changes the NWS long range forecast is about as opposite as it gets.  I suppose they have a chance to make up for it in January, but they blew December.

-------------------

Gary,

The pattern is set and cycling.  But, as the jet stream strengthens in December into January storm systems will look differently.  It will be interesting to see how this pattern produces in the next few weeks.

Gary

December 22, 2008 6:21 AM
 

cstowell said:

Facinating Gary Hoping for a enough to cover the grass but less then 2 inches out of this one in Blue Springs.
Merry Christmas
Chris
December 22, 2008 6:22 AM
 

davidmcg said:

Fast moving is the key.  Not so much air temps or available moisture.  Now it comes to a timing factor -- the fast moving trajectory of this thing.  We hit our low here in McLouth about 4AM, it was -3.1 and currently it is -2.3 and dropping again.  At least the wind died down for now.  Our pressure is rising, 30.52.  Just what we would expect with our snow pack, clear skies and lack of wind.  i am ready for the ride back closer to freezing.  Got one pipe frozen in the house, not good.  Is your sled ready for some company?  It might get some, or it may stay lonely.  See ya Gary.
December 22, 2008 6:25 AM
 

kane1970 said:

What about the storm on Tuesday into Wednesday?
December 22, 2008 6:59 AM
 

kane1970 said:

SORRY!
So it could start sometime in the early morning on Tuesday is that correct? Wow for some reason that storm on Sat. looks really wicked! Would it be safe to say that after Sat. we should be in the quiet part of the pattern?

------------------

There may be a quieter stretch for a few days into New Years, next week, but the active pattern may resume after that.

There is a chance of some precipitation Tuesday, but the storm moves across Tuesday night.

Gary

December 22, 2008 7:04 AM
 

JPnKC said:

Great blog Gary-- and Happy Hoidays/Merry Christmas to all!

Looks like this years pattern is set and we are in the middle of it all--literally-- which is absolutely incredible- it is so early in this years LRC- it will be fun to track it, as it has been so far...I dont mind these quick hitting vorts at all( I am sure you do as they seem hard to forecast - i.e. the exact track of these guys) however, I am looking forward to the strengthing jet to see how it will effect this years LRC and if we will end up with "good one" as Andrew would say.

Have a wonderful day everyone!

JP

--------------------

JP,

Yes, you hit it on the nose.  This weather pattern will present may forecast problems this winter and next spring.  I haven't thought out the spring yet.  Tomorrow and Wednesday's storm system is a fast moving tough one to predict.  We have been rolling through this season with some great forecasts, but I know there is a trick or two in Mother Natures bag to throw out at us.

Gary



December 22, 2008 7:28 AM
 

marlina10 said:

Why do I get this feeling we will be dryslotted like we have so many times in the past? It's so frustrating, as a snow lover, to see all the elements come together for a great snow, only to have that nasty dryslot show up.
December 22, 2008 7:53 AM
 

AlanNKCK said:

Gary, I know that everyone is wanting a White Christmas, but some of us who plow snow when it comes, how are our chances of having our Christmas's ruined by a snow storm.

December 22, 2008 8:28 AM
 

NateB said:

Wondering about the timing of the storm Tuesday night.  Would those of us traveling north for the holidays be better off leaving Tuesday night or Wednesday morning?
December 22, 2008 8:30 AM
 

stjoeattorney said:

Well I was -11 at my house when I left for work at 7:30 still -10.  snow on the ground makes a difference.  My nostrils froze together!
December 22, 2008 8:31 AM
 

kane1970 said:

AlanNKCK said:
"Gary, I know that everyone is wanting a White Christmas, but some of us who plow snow when it comes, how are our chances of having our Christmas's ruined by a snow storm."

You are not alone. I am in the same boat.(Or Sled) lol. I hope it does not snow Christmas Eve. Because I will have to work from Midnight until Noon. I have been stressing over this for over a week! For once I want Gary to be way off on his forecast! LOL.

Gary,
     What kind of snowfall are you thinking through Wednesday night? Also, what kind of timming are we looking at for the possible storm on Thursday? Thanks!!!!!!!
December 22, 2008 8:43 AM
 

Darkwolfe said:

On that idea for a quieter stretch just after the New Year, I say "I hope so!" Gotta fly out in the wee hours of the 9th.  So even though I really enjoy snow, I don't want to see anything delaying flights that day. :)
December 22, 2008 8:43 AM
 

kane1970 said:

Last question. Is this storm the one that cause a blizzard in Nebraska?
December 22, 2008 8:45 AM
 

WinterTracker said:

I guess it's safe to say that those of us in OP will get to watch the rest of the area have a nice snowfall while we sit in a dry slot/rain. I guess I'll forget those dreams of a white Christmas. I really do hate Kansas weather. It teases most of us, and gives to few. As you can see I have a serious case of weather depression.
December 22, 2008 9:32 AM
 

boootz said:

WinterTracker, I will tell you, as my Daddy told me....Don't whine about the weather, you had all summer to move!!!!.....lol
December 22, 2008 9:46 AM
 

RDub said:

Well, I for one am glad we didn't really get close to the predicted low of -8 last night. 0 is cold enough.
December 22, 2008 9:54 AM
 

mamaof3girls said:

It is not looking good for us to get snow for Christmas!! I am south, errrr!!! It could change easily and that is what I am hoping for. Have a great day Gary and good luck getting these storms nailed down. I hope the southern viewing area gets the goods this time, :o)
Monica
Pleasanton
December 22, 2008 10:03 AM
 

daveg616 said:

NWS already has issued winter storm watches for Northern Illinois and Indiana and Southern Wisconsin and Michigan for Tuesday, but no watches for this area. Interesting.

Dave
December 22, 2008 10:18 AM
 

morrell said:

We had a cold low of 1.0 above this morning in Prairie Village.  We are heading south for Christmas Wednesday morning and looking forward to a week in the 60's and 70's.  Any idea of what 71 south will be like Wednesday morning around 7am?
December 22, 2008 10:20 AM
 

ksokie said:

Our family needs to drive from Kansas City North to McPherson - Central KS sometime on Wednesday.  We are watching to see if it is going to be safe to go - and whether to go south route via Emporia (I-35 then 2 lane highway) or north route via Salina (I-70 then I-135).  I looked at various weather reports for Wichita and Salina but the results are mixed as to whose snow will end the first and get the lesser amount.  So weather analysts - what are your suggestions for which way to go?  Keep those of us traveling west (or anywhere) in mind as you discuss Tuesday and Wednesday's forecast. "A wreck while going to Grandmother's house means a less  Merry Christmas."  Thanks.
December 22, 2008 10:23 AM
 

RDub said:

Winter storm watches are only for really substantial snow or ice events. I don't think even the most optimistic forecast for KC would put us into WSW conditions. Even a decent 2-4" snow is not enough to trigger a WSW.
December 22, 2008 10:33 AM
 

GVTiger said:

I am new to this site and I have a question. How come on the front page there are in red letters the high and low for the day listed at 18 and -1, yet the hourly forecast shows the temp at 24 by 5 pm?
December 22, 2008 10:34 AM
 

Frosty said:

Add me to the people worrying about Tuesday's mixed precip.  I have family coming from Arkansas on Tuesday via 71 HWY.  They are asking me when the wintery mix is going to hit KC area.  Any hints?   Please let me know your best estimate. Thanks.
December 22, 2008 10:34 AM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Snow Dance!! SNOW!SNOW! SNOW! SNOW! SNOW! 1-3ft please with 10 degree temps!
December 22, 2008 10:39 AM
 

tageis said:

Safe travelling weather please!
December 22, 2008 10:45 AM
 

RDub said:

1-3 inches with 10 degree temps, maybe.
December 22, 2008 10:47 AM
 

sheldan said:

Andrew, you crack me up with your snow dances, I don't even need to add a comment, cause you say it all for me, lol.
December 22, 2008 10:49 AM
 

Alden said:

1-3 feet of snow Andrew? With 10 degree temps? Wow, I hope your snow dance works! Great blog again Gary. I hope the chance continue to increase and a white Christmas happens.
December 22, 2008 10:49 AM
 

brian1234 said:

ok folks, i will say that I was wrong about my prediction which i called for an ice storm on last thursday, however I was correct that the temps never made it above freezing. I've been busy and didn't have a chance to come on here to state that.
December 22, 2008 10:52 AM
 

WinterTracker said:

I'm 15, so I obviously can't move...
December 22, 2008 11:03 AM
 

ksokie said:

GVTiger - I (and others) posted similar questions a few days ago.  Here is the explanation I think I have seen.  The stations owners (I don't think they are in KC) wanted the national NBC weather forecast for KC posted at the top. The local station's forecast (Gary and team) are posted below in the "Stations Maps" area and the blog.  The national forecast is more based on models and often does not match with the local station's forecast.  I think most of the bloggers would prefer the sections be reversed with the local information on top - but I guess the owner gets to set the rules. :(
December 22, 2008 11:05 AM
 

Gr8ful Ted said:

Will there be freezing rain and sleet over the next 2 days 'tween Denver and KC on I-70?  Would leaving tonight be advantageous rather than driving it all Tuesday?
Gr8fulTed heading back to Leawood ....
December 22, 2008 11:09 AM
 

MrSteve said:

Kansas City just doesn't get consistent snow falls that dump 6" to a foot or more of snow on a regular basis all winter.

You need to live in Buffalo, Tahoe, Upper Mich, or places like that for that lifestyle.

It's pretty futile trying to "wish it be".


December 22, 2008 11:11 AM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Gary,

You guys need to make your own Weather Calendar!!
December 22, 2008 11:19 AM
 

RDub said:

"however I was correct that the temps never made it above freezing. I've been busy and didn't have a chance to come on here to state that."

Wow, you make a special effort to come on here and brag, but it doesn't look like you checked any of the reporting stations. It did reach and exceed freezing. Olathe reached 32.0 degrees at 5:53 pm.; downtown KC reached 32.0 at 6:31 pm and KCI at 8:10 pm.
December 22, 2008 11:20 AM
 

MrSteve said:

Our claim to fame is the weather here is inconsistent and unpredictable.

December 22, 2008 11:23 AM
 

stjoeattorney said:

MrSteve you are oh so right.  4 inches is a big storm 6 huge and 8 or more a monster storm..... Last year StJoe had an 8, 13, three 4s and a 5.  That is rare the 4.8 last week was a good snow and still here!  Add 3-4 to it and something to it Sat and we will be white for a week or two; fog will develop becasuse of the low sun angle and keep the tems down.
December 22, 2008 11:24 AM
 

Dwxtracker said:

Brian1234,
You need to check your facts before you come here to brag.
In case you didn't notice, Olathe made it up to 50 overnight Thursday, and  KCI made it up to 44. Even St. Joe made it to 37. I would call that way above freezing.
December 22, 2008 11:31 AM
 

f00dl3 said:

For the KC Metro area - I'm thinking 1-2" north of the river, up to an inch south of the MO river. There's a lot of warm air with this system for areas south of I-70, and for areas north, I just don't think we can squeeze more than 2" out of this unless your north of KCI.
December 22, 2008 11:35 AM
 

simplykristi said:

Rdub,
You are right...  The temps remained well above freezing for several hours.  We got less than 1/19 of ice in most of the metro.  I was correct in saying that the storm would not be a big deal.  It did cause minor problems.  But it was not the ice storm that some were predicting.  

Kristi
December 22, 2008 11:43 AM
 

simplykristi said:

Sounds like last Tuesday's storm except we won't have the freezing rain component.  We will have a mixture of precip (rain, sleet, and snow).

Kristi
December 22, 2008 11:46 AM
 

RDub said:

brrr, my office is cold this morning. i guess the building managers just assumed people would not be at work this week. it's barely 60 degrees in here.
December 22, 2008 11:52 AM
 

WEATHERdude said:

So Gary i was thinking, obviously the LRC exists, and it cycles through the winter and even into the spring as it begins to change. I know that you are still studying it and doing research.... but i have a question. What causes some events to be stronger with more precip/snow than another part of the cycle, 50ish days back... what factors in to create an inconsistant consistancy?

I just think weather is awesome!

and im with andrew, i wouldnt mind tying the record for snow at olathe executive which is 20 inches :D
December 22, 2008 11:54 AM
 

kane1970 said:

Whats the weather teams latest thoughts????????????
December 22, 2008 11:54 AM
 

Emmysmom said:

So is it still possible that tomorrow and Wednesday wont be much of a an issue, or is pretty "set in stone" (as much as it can be) and it's just a matter of how bad?
December 22, 2008 11:55 AM
 

weatherjaded said:

I think that by the the time the main precipitation gets here tomorrow night into wednesday morning, it will be cold enough for all snow.  I also think the southerly trending of storms with re-appear and we see a metro wide 3-4".  Just my uneducated guess.
On a side note the long range GFS shows a 4.0"QPF bullseye near KC at 360hr mark.  Any of you long range guys have a storm showing up that week?

Matt (at work) in Independence
December 22, 2008 12:05 PM
 

A dogg said:

Yeah momma0f3, I am afraid that we will just have a wet christmas for us southerners:(
December 22, 2008 12:11 PM
 

brian1234 said:

i don't think kristi cream and rub like me very well...lol
December 22, 2008 12:11 PM
 

KC_Hams said:

If you're interested in becoming a storm spotter, the National Weather Service is already starting to schedule their training sessions:

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/eax/?n=outreach-schedule
December 22, 2008 12:13 PM
 

Jason said:

Hey Andrew...on the GRLevel3 have you made any color tables that you like? I made one I like for snow, ice, but rain events and such i just do not know if i will like them since there is not any storms out with high DBZ.
December 22, 2008 12:13 PM
 

simplykristi said:

Rdub,
I was volunteering for an organization in Dec. 1989 during one of the worst cold spells in KC.  The building had NO heat due to renovations going on.

Brian,
Name calling will get you nowhere.  

Kristi
December 22, 2008 12:23 PM
 

brian1234 said:

and dwxguy, i did'nt come in here to brag, i came in to state that I was wrong about my prediction.  
December 22, 2008 12:23 PM
 

RDub said:

Kristi, I think this is the anniversary of that worst-ever cold snap. I wasn't in the area at the time, but I think it was all happening in mid-late Dec....
December 22, 2008 12:26 PM
 

juba said:

This is a very informative website:
http://www.something.com/
December 22, 2008 12:29 PM
 

stjoeattorney said:

PLAY NICE IT'S CHRISTMAS NOTICE THE WX TEAM HAS NOT BEEN ON HERE MUST BE TRYING TO CHYPHER THE NEW DATA. . .
December 22, 2008 12:37 PM
 

kcwxguy said:

Kristi - "We got less than 1/19 of ice in most of the metro."  Good grief..how does one measure that?  LOL

Weatherdude - "What causes some events to be stronger with more precip/snow than another part of the cycle"  Jet location, seasonal adjustments/norms [such as moisture transport] and some natural locational variability contribute to your question.

Oh..and in case anyone was looking for this on the SPC site - here is the direct link.  I will be attending again this year.  http://www.norman.noaa.gov/nsww2009/

Tues night/Wed looks fun for a few inches of snow in the area.  Should be fun to track.
December 22, 2008 12:42 PM
 

Dwxtracker said:

Jason,

Sent you a pm, send me an email if you want.

David
December 22, 2008 12:44 PM
 

Dwxtracker said:

brian1234 said:
"and dwxguy, i did'nt come in here to brag, i came in to state that I was wrong about my prediction."

Okay, you did admit you were wrong about the ice, but you were still claiming that you were right about the temperatures.

I'm done with this now, lets look forward (hopefully) to some snow!
December 22, 2008 12:46 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Jason,

A few, just go to grlevelxstuff.com register and look in Color Tables Download section and search by username: weatherdude
December 22, 2008 12:47 PM
 

sherman said:

What is the snow doing out in western Kansas?  The radar is lighting up.
December 22, 2008 12:51 PM
 

WEATHERdude said:

sherman, im with you... thats really an interesting observation

especially since the RUC has nothing for central kansas
December 22, 2008 1:00 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

most of that is verga sherman.  its not unexpected.  maybe it will help saturate the air for us.
December 22, 2008 1:02 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

wow look at the energy in the storm for Saturday!  Now THAT is what I am talking about.


That snow is getting close..it is at Manhattan and riding up I-35 in a northeast direction already past Wichita.
December 22, 2008 1:07 PM
 

KansasPatriot said:

Oops, spoke to soon I guess...must not be anything snow wise...yeah I was going to say sherman..I looked at the radar and was like...what the heck!
December 22, 2008 1:08 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

it would seem as though this 'storm' is trending a wee bit north and more east with time.  the nws' latest outlook suggest N. KC to IRK to be the area of focus, i would tend to agree with that.  tomorrow might be interesting with light accumulations of mixed precip tomorrow for those north of I-70.  i sincerely doubt that a changeover to rain occurs there, however, the temp could/should get warm enough to mitigate any serious problems.  south of I-70 can expect to see a mixed bag of precip tomorrow morning changing over to rain eventually with few problems.  methinks there will be a sharp cutoff line for snow along the south and eastern sides of the metro...running parallel with I-35, just how far south/east will the cutoff setup though???

things change, but i wouldnt expect more snow in the viewing area than what happened last snow overall.  some areas may get locally more than they did last time, but the overall picture will be painted similarly.  this snow will be different in nature compared to the last snow: much quicker hit, lower liq:snow ratio due to warmer temps, larger flakes, over a lot quicker, and not likely to have lingering snow showers last hours after the event ended.

just my thoughts!
December 22, 2008 1:22 PM
 

MCSev said:

Hey Gary,

I spent the weekend in Northeast Iowa.  They are better at cold, snow, ice and wind than we are down here in KC.  -8, 35 knot winds, 4 inches of snow -- high adventure.

What's your thoughts on a January thaw!

Would really like to see some mild weather in January.

M
December 22, 2008 1:30 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

btw, here is another snowcover image covering the plains and MW:

http://www.osei.noaa.gov/OSEIiod.html

December 22, 2008 1:32 PM
 

juba said:

new blog
December 22, 2008 1:44 PM
 

GaryB said:

I agree Pvt Murph...  It might nearly a "poof" before it even gets here.......at least for major snows in KC
December 22, 2008 1:45 PM
 

5kckmartins said:

it snow in KC on Christmas eve/Christmas day.. who we kiddin??
December 22, 2008 2:02 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

I don't see a new blog??
December 22, 2008 2:10 PM
 

Wildcat said:

Not looking so good for much snow around KC Tues/Wed......
December 22, 2008 2:12 PM
 

f00dl3 said:

I think for now on the words "Energetic" should not be used with "stormy pattern", unless in the rare exception we have 2 back-to-back official NWS guideline-meeting winter storms (0.25" ice or 6" snow - or significant accumulations of both) that have impacted the region and a third one heading our way.

I think this first time though the LRC should be dubbed as the "Cycle with potential but never with promise." Admitted, it has dumped 5.5" of snow where I live at, but there have been soooo many storms that just went poof.
December 22, 2008 2:19 PM
 

pvt_murphy said:

one thing that is being overlooked is that it has been extremely dry here this winter.  its not being discussed by the weather team for obvious reasons, but that is why these storms arent producing a lot for us.  we have done a fantastic job considering we are way behind on precip for the season.  these storms are forming in the right way for us.  but when you are -1.41" liquid behind where you should be for nov/dec its kinda hard to expect a lot of big snows.  we should be considering ourselves lucky that we are running around average for snow so far-which is due solely to the cooler than average conditions we are experiencing.  

if only anyone saw a drier winter with near average snowfall due to cooler than average temps coming...
December 22, 2008 2:32 PM
 

Stilwell said:

Hey Mr. Steve,

I grew up in Kansas and we used to get great snowfalls much of the winter. From January until March there was often snow always on the ground. The weather has changed over the last 15 years and I miss the good ole days of true winter. I also hate how the city now freaks out over an inch or two of snow.

I am joining in the snow dance because I LOVE SNOW and LOVE WINTER. I am depressed that Kansas winter's are no longer white.
December 22, 2008 2:41 PM
 

Andrew_Stafford said:

Stilwell,

Hopefully days will come back, I believe it's possible. Crossing my fingers for Global Cooling in stead of warming-- not like I ever believed in GW in the first place.
December 22, 2008 2:58 PM
Anonymous comments are disabled

This Blog

Post Calendar

<December 2008>
SuMoTuWeThFrSa
30123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031123
45678910

Syndication

Inergize Digital Media This site powered by Inergize Digital Media. The views expressed here do not necessarily reflect the views of this station.